Disclaimer: This is an automated transcript, we apologize for any errors. If you notice any problems, please email the show at teachmeaboutthegreatlakes@gmail.com. Thank you.

Stuart Carlton 0:00
teach me about the Great Lakes. Teach me about the Great Lakes. John, welcome back to teach me about the Great Lakes a twice monthly podcast in which I agree lakes novice as people who are smarter and harder working than I am to teach me all about the Great Lakes. My name is Stuart Carlton and I know a lot about walking your son to school in eighth degree weather and forgetting your gloves at which point you feel the chill deep, deep, deep in your bones and you start to question things about your life, namely, while you forgot your gloves, but I don't know a lot about Great Lakes. And that's the point of this year Podcast. I'm joined today by the amazing the awesome, Megan God and Megan, how are you?

Megan Gunn 0:38
I'm good steward. How are you doing?

Stuart Carlton 0:40
I'm also good. Actually, my hands are warming up. I am cupping my mug of coffee. I am absorbing its warmth. And more importantly, I'm absorbing its caffeine. We're recording earlier this morning. But that's good. I like it. I like it. I don't know what my excuse will be for brain fog. But I'll come up with one. No, but I'm really fired up. So because this is a timely, you know, we'd like to be a timely show. Always right. And we have our finger on the pulse of what's going on throughout the Great Lakes. And so I'm super fired up today because our old friend so we just had the Lakers, right and as we know, I happen to be a leaky wiener magazine yesterday when a leaky and who am I to override the will of the people. You know, I don't want to do that. We have a but we all have a separate thing that's secret and internal. That's not there for public consumption. And that is our guest Hall of Fame. And that's got we've got about 50 episodes and it's got about a dozen members and today we have a Hall of Famer back on and that's going to be Stephanie gundula She works for the Thunder Bay National Marine Sanctuary and they've got a really cool thing coming up actually a Leakey nominated event coming up that we're going to talk all about, but but beyond that Stephanie is just really amazing. She has a really cool job. She's a marine archaeologist. And anytime you can talk to a marine archaeologist you have to so let's just head on over there. I got some new tunes that I made over the break. Which one should we do? Let's try this one.

Our guest today is Stephanie gondola. She's a research coordinator and marine archaeologist at the Thunder Bay National Marine Sanctuary. Stephanie, how are you?

Stephanie Gandulla 2:34
I'm doing great this morning trying to stay warm just like you. Yeah,

Stuart Carlton 2:37
I bet so you're up. You're up in Michigan near the sanctuary. What city are you in

Stephanie Gandulla 2:40
Alpena, Michigan. So just at the northern bit of the Lower Peninsula of Michigan,

Stuart Carlton 2:46
lower? Oh, yeah. Okay, I was here right at the tip of the glove. Pretty much.

Stephanie Gandulla 2:49
Yeah. Right. It's like the tip of the half an inch down from your index finger,

Stuart Carlton 2:54
the index finger not the tip of the key finger. Okay, I was that was the next question, but I'll avoid that one. All right, so let's have some weather. Come on. I want to live vicariously Do you have like we don't get snow here we just deal with the miserable cold and it never snows it snows once a year and I take my kids sledding and I almost have a heart attack and then I come home and then I say that was fun. I'm glad it's over but then it never happens again. So are you all like do you have feet of snow I hope can I live through you?

Stephanie Gandulla 3:18
We do have quite a bit of snow I was just checking and it has warmed up to nine degrees here this morning in beautiful Pina we had a snow day so I'll Pina public schools were closed yesterday because of a snow day so I guess that means we got we got some snow. We got some ice up here.

Stuart Carlton 3:32
That's fun. Winter sports are fun. Yeah, I was up in Michigan Tech, which I guess it's up in the up isn't it? And I was like if you're into winter sports a place like this. I mean, and going to college and studying all that naturally but but you know, if you go to college for more than one reason, that could be a reason. Well, great. That's not why we're here today either. We're here to talk about Thunder Bay and the film festival coming up first of all, so for those who who don't remember your first episode, which was episode 14, telling you about Thunder Bay marine sanctuary, that's like a weird thing to hear about because the Great Lakes I don't know if you know, it's actually one of the things I've learned great what the Great Lakes are freshwater, freshwater, not marine at all, but we have marine sanctuary. So what goes with that?

Stephanie Gandulla 4:11
So we really should be called Thunder Bay National lacking stream sanctuary, right. However, one of the very cool things about Thunder Bay is that we're part of a national system. And that's the Office of National Marine Sanctuaries, which has 16 sites all across our beautiful country, celebrating and protecting our underwater treasures. And those treasures are both natural and cultural. So natural being, you know, deep sea canyons, massive salt domes in the Gulf of Mexico, humpback whale migration routes, coral reefs, of course. But then you come to the Great Lakes and we focus on America's special cultural resources. Easy way to say that shipwrecks we've got lots and lots of shipwrecks.

Stuart Carlton 4:57
shipwrecks? Yes, like lots within a sanctuary. itself, how many are in the sanctuary?

Stephanie Gandulla 5:01
Well within the 4300 square miles that encompass the sanctuary. So that's off the shores of Northeast Michigan, encompassing three counties. So pretty massive area stretches, from the shoreline of Northeast Michigan all the way to the Canadian border, and 4300 square miles. We have 100 shipwrecks that we've identified, and we estimate this is a really cool thing. And what makes my job super fun. We estimate there's at least that many more to find. So we get to go out and look for shipwrecks.

Megan Gunn 5:30
Wow, that was gonna be my next question. So how many shipwrecks are in the Great Lakes total? Then that you know?

Stephanie Gandulla 5:37
So? That's a great question that people always ask. And we don't have like a an exact answer, of course, because we're still looking. But the estimates I've heard from other archaeologists and historians are anywhere from six to 10,000. Wow.

Stuart Carlton 5:51
Now hold on one second. Stephanie. That was good. That was real good. But just one second before you give us that. It's a great lakes, factoids, a Great Lakes factoid, it's a great factoid about the Great Lakes. Now, what was that again,

Stephanie Gandulla 6:06
we asked to meet archaeologists and historians in the Great Lakes estimate, there's anywhere between six to 10,000 shipwrecks in in all five of the lakes.

Stuart Carlton 6:15
That's been a thing that since I moved here is been the most eye opening for me. And it's so obvious once you think about it, but everything's obvious what you think about it. You know, it never really occurred to me what huge just shipping and boating and, you know, went on in this area. And in many ways, it's the big story of the you know, the we've talked a lot about never actually did a book club on definitely for the Great Lakes. But there he talks about the, you know, the maritime stuff a lot and in terms of introductions of aquatic invasive species, but also shipwrecks. So most of those are shipping vessels is that primarily what there

Stephanie Gandulla 6:44
were all of them that we've identified in Thunder Bay National Marine Sanctuary. So in the northern link here on are indeed those commercial vessels, which, you know, attest and point to exactly what you're talking about that, you know, the lots of traffic, building America's economy really back in the 19th century. And so it's the the shipping and so schooners and steamers that we're very like are the semi trucks on the trains on the interstate and the train tracks today. Now, there are some more vessels, particularly in Lake Ontario, which very interestingly, there is a proposed National Marine Sanctuary. This is also breaking not breaking news. But But late news. Some of the latest in the Great Lakes as far as marine protected areas, just in June of this year, the second freshwater National Marine Sanctuary was designated for many years, thunderbay was the only freshwater National Marine Sanctuary. Now we are still the first, but we're not the only anymore, so

Stuart Carlton 7:44
you'll always be the fifth.

Stephanie Gandulla 7:48
But the shores of middle of Wisconsin so off the shores of two rivers in Sheboygan and Manitowoc is the lake, Michigan, it's Wisconsin shipwreck Coast National Marine Sanctuary, and designated for very similar reasons to why Thunder Bay was designated. And that's to protect those fragile shipwreck sites that are so well preserved here in the cold freshwater.

Megan Gunn 8:12
And if I'm remembering from the last time we talked to you, these are open to the public to go and explore Correct?

Stephanie Gandulla 8:18
That's exactly right. And that's one of the the aspects about this particular marine protected area. In fact, all of the national marine protected areas within the system that we really celebrate and that's accessibility. We are even though it's called the sanctuary, which you know, at first, you might think that it's closed off and no one's allowed to come but we celebrate accessibility and people visiting these sites because as Jacques Cousteau said, people protect what they love, and how are you going to love someone something or someone if you really, you know, connect with it, and best way to connect with these historical artifacts, these shipwrecks is to snorkel to them to take your stand up paddleboard out to a buoy, you can see through the clear freshwater, or of course scuba dive to the shipwreck site so super accessible, even the glass bottom boat

Stuart Carlton 9:08
once it's COVID stuff is over. That's where I don't dive I mean, I've scuba or not school, but what's the snorkel but glass bottom boat that sounds that sounds my speed. So here's my question. You're a big diver, you've done the Big Five dive, which are people to hear all about that go to teach me about the great lakes.com/one 414 That's where Stephanie and our good friend and Meghan guys talked about the Big Five dive, but but how many of the shipwrecks in the sanctuary have you? Oh, I screw this up every time duvet upon or whatever it is. Don't

Stephanie Gandulla 9:36
like that. You know, what's funny is I switch it up every time and I say these sentences all the time and sometimes I say dive sometimes I say don't scuba dove scuba dive, I have completed via scuba. All of the wrecks that we have mooring buoys on because that's a big part of what our dive team does, which is go out and deploy these mooring buoys which are seasonal so we got put them out there and then bring them back in. So we maintain these buoys on over 40 shipwreck sites. So I visited all of those. And then probably a handful of others, I, of course, keep good records in my dialog. But yeah, so I'd like to say lots of the shipwrecks we have, but not all of them. I, I'm not a technical diver, like many of the folks that do travel from all over the world to dive some of our deeper sites. So the deepest I've gotten is about 140. The deepest shipwrecks we have though, you know, upwards of 300 feet deep that people with really, highly trained, that's

Stuart Carlton 10:33
really deep. Again, I don't know. So that's, that's real deep,

Stephanie Gandulla 10:35
was really, that's really, really deep. So if you think about the environment and the pressures that you have to withstand, not to mention the cold that you experienced this morning, walking your son to school, those are serious environmental pressures that you have to learn how to deal with and be very, very trained, and then equipment changes as well.

Stuart Carlton 10:54
You have all the snorkeling I've done has been like in the Gulf of Mexico. And that's just nice. It's not cold at all. Nice. Yep. Yes. Nice, warm so you can see the sharks coming to attack you. It's making you do some diving, right, are you? So I know you do like research diving, but But have you grown to big gaps, or if you don't shipwrecks?

Megan Gunn 11:15
Well, I have done a shipwreck, but I think that they placed it there. I don't think that it was a natural shipwreck. But the deepest I've gone is maybe maybe 80 feet. I'm only an Open Water Diver. So I can't go to the One day One day I'll be advanced. But you do you do need to know you have to have that training, because the bins are, I'm sure not fun I've never had. But yeah, no, thank you. Oh, wait.

Stephanie Gandulla 11:41
Well, the cool thing about the sanctuary, Megan is you could come here and as many of our shipwrecks are like, in 20 feet, 40 feet, 50 feet that are super. And so this summer, I'll do it this

Stuart Carlton 11:53
summer. Now we need to make a trip. We need to make a trip. And so y'all are fully open and everything like what COVID stuff is or maybe not fully open? What is the what is the so people now they're listening for like, I've got to go soon? What is your status,

Stephanie Gandulla 12:06
the status of the our visitor center, which is amazing, you know, 10,000 square feet of interactive exhibits. It's free open year round. However, we're pretty cautious with that. No, so we're actually still closed right now. But expecting I mean, by the summer when you guys come up, you guys, you know, we could do you could do a podcast from the exhibits with the ship, the full life size ship right behind you with the thunder crashing,

Stuart Carlton 12:31
that would be really cool. I don't know that this summer is the summer of that. But that is on the list. I just mean, because of my family's situation. But But yes, you've convinced me. I will write that on the list of ideas. I love it. Okay, but you're hoping by this stuff? Obviously, nobody knows. But But hopefully, by the summer that because it does sound like a great Visitor Center. And since I do have all these kids, they'll want to see that. Absolutely. I want to make them see that even if they don't want to see it. And they love

Stephanie Gandulla 12:55
it. The kids. What's cool about it, it's very hands on, you know, you can climb on the schooner you know, pull on the rigging, there's a slide that makes you feel like you're scuba diving. And it's also the launch point for the glass bottom boat. So

Stuart Carlton 13:08
there we go Done and done and done. And one of the cool things about your diving is is that big five dive and what I know about it is there's a neat film that you can view. And again, if you go listen to episode 14, you heard all about it. But I think that film was originally part of this film festival, is that correct? And so professionally segwaying into the ninth annual ninth annual Thunder Bay film festival. Oh, hold on. I was looking at the old website. Let me update my notes, the 10th annual which is nine plus one, Thunder Bay film festival. Tell me about this film festival? How did how did this come about? It's such a cool idea.

Stephanie Gandulla 13:41
You know, this is one of the most fun parts of our jobs here at the Marine Sanctuary is, you know, reaching out to that waterway, the global waterway that we're all connected to, right, the Great Lakes, as you guys know, used to talk about this on your show all the time. This you know, it's a very important part of our water system on the planet very important ecosystem 20% of the world's freshwater surface supply. So we know that so it's we we got to remind our audiences, we got to remind ourselves that it's an important place and that what we do every day here in the Great Lakes does affect our ocean ecosystems. And so we partner with the international ocean Film Festival, which is the longest running of its kind, I believe it's in its 19th year this year, and they curate hundreds and hundreds of submissions every year from the latest in ocean filmmaking. And so they they do all the hard work, you know, they get big jury that these films and they they call out and they they pick the top they pick the best and then we get that whole package and we show you I think there's like 70 Plus films this year from from the San Francisco International ocean Film Festival collection. And then we add some great lakes content of course and so It's a great way to celebrate being a part of the National Marine Sanctuary system because we show films from other national marine sanctuaries, but also a great way to show all that ocean content. So really anything you can think about that might be a theme that might be covered in an ocean Film Festival. We've got to film for it. So sharks surfing, climate change, ocean acidification, sea level rise, aquaculture, the list goes on and on.

Megan Gunn 15:22
Is this something that people can only see in person? Or is there a virtual way that we can watch it?

Stephanie Gandulla 15:28
Well, it is virtual the last two years, you know, just for some reason, we decided to go virtual. We it has been in person since 2012. And it's been a I mean, it's jam. We do it every January in Alpena. And so Alpini is a cold snowy town in the winter. And it's such a great activity to do. It's almost a week long when we're in person, right almost week long. And people can come to the visitor center, we have 100 seat theater. And of course, we have popcorn. And we have receptions. And parties and filmmakers come and talk about their film scientists come and share the science that's that's covered in the films. So the in person event is super cool. You don't want to miss that in January of 2023. However, this year, and then last year, we did our first virtual. And, you know, at first when I was planning the virtual last year, I was a little sad that we wouldn't be able to do the in person. But it turned out to be really amazing. Being virtual, as you know, with your program that that can reach all corners of the globe. That's what we found, we found people joining the virtual FilmFest from, from Brazil, from Russia from literally all over the world. So we were able to, to reach people that may never visit the Great Lakes that may have never even know about the Great Lakes. So virtual has its has its you know, has its benefits. And so going forward, we will likely always do a hybrid now, but But next year, we're going to have some good Film Fest parties for you guys to come in January of 23.

Stuart Carlton 16:56
Let's go the wrong way. In January, I'll be honest. But but we'll look into so how does the virtual thing work? Is it like? Is there a certain time where the film's because you have I don't know how many films you have half a dozen or a dozen or something? I would guess. And and so did they stream at a certain time? Or is it like you have a window? What is what is that window?

Stephanie Gandulla 17:14
It's definitely a window. And we've got dozens and dozens of films,

Stuart Carlton 17:18
actually dozens and dozens? Oh, I stand corrected. Okay,

Stephanie Gandulla 17:21
I haven't even done the full count yet. But I'm looking at at least 70 films. Wow. Which is super cool. Now, these films are not all feature length, of course. So some of them are five minutes long, some are 15 minutes long. But the content so much amazing content there. So lots and lots of films, and there's a window of time. So January 26, through February 6, and you can buy your tickets right now, which is super cool. What a Thunder Bay friends.org. And get your I recommend the thunder Pass, which gives you all access, it's 100 bucks gives you access to everything. Or if you want to just see a couple films there 10 to $12 each depending so kind of like go into the regular movies. And what's another very convenient thing is it's really similar to Netflix. So let's say you start you know, two and a half hour long surfing film, and you want to take a break or you want to finish it the next day, or you want to watch it over again. You have access to whatever films you've signed up for or purchased throughout that whole 12 days.

Stuart Carlton 18:19
Here we go. All right, so I'm at Yep. All right. Thunder Bay friends.org. We'll put a link to this in the show notes. Which if I can count is that teach me about the great lakes.com/four Nine? Because this is episode 49 on I'm there now and you have a whole you have a film catalog. Yeah, thunderpants that's the way to go. That's the first round.

Stephanie Gandulla 18:39
And if you click on that film catalog, the film guy can pop up just like Netflix. It has like little movie poster looking things and then you click on those. And if there's a trailer available with the film you can even though it's hasn't started yet, because it's you know, it starts on the 26th you still can watch trailers. You can read about the film's you could kind of plan your festival experience.

Stuart Carlton 19:00
Oh, yeah. And you have these great, so I watched the overall trailer to get prepared for this. But I hadn't really I didn't really dig through this but you have different programs things like films about the National Marine Sanctuaries female director program that sounds interesting to really make sure that you're focusing on amazing films from diverse voices whales, so I'm gonna have to do that one. Yeah, you're right. So this is cool. So it's a window, you go to the website, 100 bucks. That's, that's really that's that's a good deal for all of this.

Stephanie Gandulla 19:25
Well, it does support the Friends of Thunder Bay National Marine Sanctuary, which is the nonprofit that supports our missions here at the Marine Sanctuary. So it all goes to a good cause. And it's 1212 days of film fun.

Stuart Carlton 19:37
Yeah, that's like 10 bucks a day. Yeah, I spend that just on hair product. That's cool. And is there a student film competition this year, too? Oh, yes.

Stephanie Gandulla 19:45
I'm so glad you asked because that's one of the coolest things. So Student Film Competition is in its seventh year this year. And in fact, our good friend Megan, who was in the Big Five die with me who was on Episode 14, is that

Stuart Carlton 19:58
14 I think oh or sending everybody the wrong place or whatever. Yeah, well, they're

Stephanie Gandulla 20:02
all good. They're all good shows. She helped launch that student film competition, which let me tell you for sure. He's awesome. Which, you know, you might think of what can you know, some high school students really produce when it comes to filmmaking. And every single year, I am just so impressed. Some have brought me to tears. They're, they're awesome. And so we have a good partnership with the local high school here, I'll Pina High School and some dedicated instructors have made it and assignment and made it part of their coursework to awesome yeah, to submit a film, which really makes it a big difference. Because especially in these times, it's kind of you want to help as much as you can, the students and the instructors. And so we've just got the submissions in. And we have every year up until actually this year, we've had a specific theme for the film festival for the student competition. So we would change it. So the first year it was hashtag water is, and then it was hashtag biodiversity is and so the students would get to, you know, make a film based on that theme. And they did a great job of that. And then this year, we changed it to science in the sanctuary. And we wanted students to really explore, you know what sanctuary means to them. So it could be based in Thunder Bay National Marine Sanctuary, it could be set in any of the other 15 National Marine Sanctuary sites, or it could be just what a sanctuary is to you. So there's prizes, people can add students can enter from all over the world. So if you miss the deadline this year, there'll be a student competition next year. So there's opportunities for ninth through 12th graders to submit a film a short film.

Stuart Carlton 21:43
And now I imagine the quality only goes up like as technology just becomes I think about what we need to do. So some buddies of mine, and I made a film, I won't tell you the all the details. Well, it was called all stopped up in high school, I was actually not really part of it. These are filmed one of these guys ended up working in Hollywood. The other one is an attorney. And it was about a guy with a bad case of constipation. But I won't go into all the details. But you're welcome. But making that film was a big challenge, because all VHS tapes and stuff like that. And so right and now with the oh my god, I've never sounded older. Nevermind, I'm gonna just end this conversation right now. Making all stuffed up will be a lot easier now. I guess that's all I have to say. That's cool. I'm super fired up. Yeah. So everybody, just go to thunderbay friends.org. And in and get your thunder passive. It's not that hard. And this sounds really good.

Stephanie Gandulla 22:32
I'm sorry, Stuart. But I just want to mention before I forget, you can watch those student films, you can watch the winners. And I think the top three, if I remember correctly in each year, and take a look at some of those winners, which just are you would be impressed. So there's links at thunderbay friends.org to the Oh, so

Stuart Carlton 22:50
really, okay. Well, I'm gonna put those links in the show notes. Yeah, once I find them, I'll dig them up and find them. And you know

Stephanie Gandulla 22:56
what I'll do this is inspired me. I'm going to host the winners of each year on our Facebook page, the sanctuary Facebook page.

Stuart Carlton 23:02
Great. And we'll have links to that, too. I don't have a Facebook, but I'll make sure that the people who do get it posted or get it figure it out for me, so that's cool. Well, awesome. Awesome. All right. I'm gonna have a film festival I miss. If I got my math right. We're releasing this episode on the 17th of January, which is what just a week or so before the film festival premieres. So no time like the present kids. Go get your thunder pass. And you're ready. Maybe we'll have a yeah, I'll tell you about right now. Tweet at us if there's a film you really liked, and maybe we can have a conversation online about it. That'll be fun. Is there like a film festival? Hashtag? Is that a thing? I'm so bad at social engagement. Hope we needed help on for this. But let's pretend that I'm not. And are y'all doing some of the engagement stuffer?

Stephanie Gandulla 23:45
For sure we're doing our best we're doing hashtag Pure Michigan because everything's in Michigan and super cool. And then hashtag T bif. S for Thunder Bay International Film Festival. And then Thunder Bay shipwrecks is another good one. But I think TVI F F, get into your sanctuary is another hashtag. We use harkening back to that, you know, accessibility, and we want people to enjoy and recreate and get out on the water and in the water under the water. Yeah, so that's those are our hashtags. And they're all I forgot to mention, there will be some live Q and A's. I've got three scheduled right now. But there'll be probably five to six live Q and A's with filmmakers and scientists that you can watch in real time or there'll be recorded as

Stuart Carlton 24:35
well. Well, those will vote during the day when I can watch or at night when I'm I have other duties during the day. I can put on a marking.

Stephanie Gandulla 24:42
They are I think most of them will be at night. Sorry, Michael, watch

Megan Gunn 24:46
the recordings. They will be recorded.

Stuart Carlton 24:49
That sounds good. So what about accessibility? Think about that with diving. It just occurred to me that that's diabetes. So shifting back less professionally this time. More more how my brain actually works. So, accessibility and diving, that's kind of a, is there something you can do to make your the shipwrecks more accessible to broader audiences? Maybe people who don't dive or who can't dive for various reasons? Is that a thing? Or no?

Stephanie Gandulla 25:12
That's the best question ever. Excellent question. Because that's what we're all about. Because you're 100%. Right, as Megan knows, 1% of the population scuba diets, you know, whether most people are smart enough to not want to, to know that we do not breed a lot of foolish people like Megan, and I like to do it anyway. But most people, you know, don't scuba dive. And so how do we bring these shipwrecks to, to the public and, you know, engage them and, you know, get their investment in wanting to protect them. And with technology, like we're talking with the film, making technology, it's very similar, we have techniques now technology to bring the shipwrecks to the people virtual virtual experiences. If you look on the sanctuaries.noaa.gov website, they have a 360 page, where there's some 360 videos where you literally can dive, you can use the goggles, which are super cool, too, but you don't have to, and you literally can experience what it's like to dive through a shipwreck or through coral reefs. And you can look all around just like 360 virtual tour. So there's that way to bring it to the people. There's also virtual still images, we've, you know, we document these shipwrecks and monitor, so we continue to document them throughout time. And then we can bring those those those images and videos to the people. And then what really engages people is the stories of the shipwrecks, right? I mean, the images are striking and compelling, of course, but the stories of the people, you know, everyday people like like us, who lived and thrived on the Great Lakes, you know, the, the the shipwrecks that went down and tell the stories of the tragic few that did lose their lives, but they also tell the stories of the 1000s and 1000s, that Dino made that they're living and live to an old age and their experiences, their history is not necessarily recorded in our history books. And so that's what's compelling to a lot of people about these shipwrecks, is that human element human story.

Stuart Carlton 27:17
That's amazing. Yeah, I met I'm there now at the at the virtual tour stuff that's really cool. A lot of pictures. And that idea of telling those stories, that's that's rarely me because right, nobody else is doing it. That occurred me know that. There's a goofy Twitter account Lake Superior or whatever. And the whole deal is, it's like a snarky embodiment of the lake and but on the day of the Edmund Fitzgerald, it just tweets out all the names of the people who died. And Edmund Fitzgerald, you know, doesn't mean squat to me. But when I'm thinking about it, it wasn't that long ago. Right. And so there, there are some people for whom it's really still probably a live issue. And that really got me thinking about this idea of right, you know, shipwrecks aren't just things to die if but, but there are people's history and and people's lives. And that was really powerful to think about.

Stephanie Gandulla 28:05
Yeah, there are grave sites for a lot of many of them are grave sites. And, of course of a demand respect. And the you know, that was Fitzgerald was 1975. So I don't know, you guys probably weren't in I know you weren't alive.

Stuart Carlton 28:19
I was almost born. Yeah, I was born in I'm not going to say when but it was 1978. And so, yeah, yeah. But but right. So that's basically roughly in my lifetime. Yeah.

Stephanie Gandulla 28:28
Right. And so you know, I that reminds me of a short story. I want to share just real quick about people that are connected to this history. You know, you're right. You think about edibles. You know, we're over 100 years ago who is alive these days. In 2017, the sanctuary and partners discovered two shipwrecks, the Ohio and the Choctaw. And both deep, deep shipwrecks. 300 feet deep. And we announced the discovery. It was great, exciting research project. Couldn't do it without our partners. And I got an email. Not long after our announcement of this really nice lady. Her name is Diane and she said that her ants was remembers the captain Captain fox of the Choctaw. Talking about the sinking he in the crew survived the sinking of the Choctaw. And she remembers her grandpa, she was a little girl talking about this sinking and she was so excited. She hadn't been to the sanctuary. So it was Aunt Ruth. She I think was 92 in 2017. And she came and visited and talked with our historians. What a neat connection and really making it it really brought it to life.

Stuart Carlton 29:39
Great. This is really fascinating stuff. Stephanie and I'm so good. Oh wait, we just had a visitor.

Stephanie Gandulla 29:45
My obnoxious Black Cat Sebastian.

Stuart Carlton 29:47
Oh, black cats are the best cats. So no, that's all great. Anyway, not on the podcast. Sorry listeners at home. You don't get the full VIP experience that we get when we're actually doing the recording. That's a that's stinks for you. Awesome. Anyway, oh, this is actually really interesting stuff. Stephanie. I'm so glad to hear about it love to hear about the sanctuary in the film festival and of course diving and things like that. But that's actually not why we invited you here. Teach me about the Great Lakes this week. Oh, the reason we invited you on is to ask you two questions. And the first one we have an answer for but I'm curious as to whether or not it's changed. And that is this. If you can have a great donut for breakfast or a great sandwich for lunch, which would you choose?

Stephanie Gandulla 30:27
Without a doubt, a great sandwich. So much. Still going on

Stuart Carlton 30:31
sandwich. All right. And so when I'm in Alpena, I'm there for the thunderbay film. No, I'm not there for the film festival, because it's in January. I'm there over the summer.

Stephanie Gandulla 30:39
It's inside. Stuart, do we watch them inside a worm

Stuart Carlton 30:42
inside? That'd be intense. Actually, you can have a special outdoor track out about it. You paid people that would be opposite, right? But anyway, alright, so I'm there NLP now either over the summer, or in January, or you know, because there are other seasons to anyway, and I want to get a good sandwich. Where should I go? What should I get?

Stephanie Gandulla 31:02
You know, that's a tough one because we have some amazing sandwich places, amazing love places here. We're not a big city. You know, about 10,000 People live here, but we've got some great choices for food. So I don't know if I can pick just one. What comes to mind is the hungry hippie doesn't necessarily have sandwiches, but they have bowls like rice bowls, and Buddha bowls and yummy, yummy, flavorful stuff with this garlic sauce. But then the fresh palate is one of my favorite places right downtown, where you can get super healthy, tasty food, they change their menu all the time. So I've made a sandwich there. And then of course, there's awesome brothers Brewing Company, which if you're gonna go to lunch, and you don't have to work the rest of the day, that's a great place to go. Their burgers are awesome. So there's choices.

Stuart Carlton 31:49
So why in a town of 10,000, which is 1/17 the side of the Greater Lafayette area do you have more good sounding restaurants so we have in this entire city?

Unknown Speaker 32:00
We're a special place man.

Stuart Carlton 32:02
I agree. This is my ongoing. Two things about what's Lafayette Lafayette? One, why can't we get some snow because we got the cold just give us a snow to and to just one. Just one good restaurant. I would like one good restaurant. It will happen though. thing is we're growing. And one of these days, we'll get a good restaurant. No, I'm just kidding. We have plenty of good restaurants. But those those all three of those. I'm good. Alright, send your question. And this has changed since last time you're on I can't remember what we asked you before. But But now we'd like to ask our guests. Is there like a maybe you can make this dive relevant? Is there like a special place in the Great Lakes? Um, you want to share with our audience and what makes it you know, special to you?

Stephanie Gandulla 32:40
Oh, my goodness. So I'm not from the Great Lakes. And so on the one hand, I think I can answer that. I mean, I might be able to offer a different perspective. On the other hand, I also don't know a lot of places that native Great Lakes people do. But the first place that pops into my mind is 40 mile point, which is just a few miles north of Roger City, Michigan. So as I sit right here in Alpena it's like a half hour drive. And it is it was actually featured in the Big Five dive and what's amazing about 40 mile point it's like a perfect maritime heritage classroom and has a beautiful Lighthouse 40 mile Point Lighthouse which you can climb lighthouse keepers quarters. An actual wheelhouse from a Great Lakes freighter sits there on the on the sand. It has a foghorn signal building and then really cool to bring it back to shipwrecks, which I just can't help. There's a remains of a wooden freighter on the beach and then the rest of that freighter is out in the lake a couple of 100 yards. It's about 18 feet deep. Great. That's where I take you Megan when you come to dive is to the shipwreck Joseph S Fe off of 40 mile point and then on top of all that cultural heritage that's that's right there in your face at 40 mile point it's a beautiful forested pine area. There's There's trails through the woods and then a gorgeous beach looks. I swear it looks like Caribbean nice sandy beach with aquamarine colors. 40 mile point off the shores of Northeast Michigan's miles.

Stuart Carlton 34:14
Very cool. We will write that down. And you can check that out in the show notes. And you've you've you've dove in there and it sounds like Megan will to hopefully this summer That's the promise that's the promise we'll check in every year to we'd like to have you on Stephanie. So we'll check in and yeah, but it's been a tough, tough couple of years. A little bit. Diving is a good COVID activity like even even if things oh, I don't want to say it. But so even over this winter where we're concerned about stuff it's a good thing to have you done any cool dives like during COVID Yeah,

Stephanie Gandulla 34:42
I kept diving quite a bit so I I was very fortunate to do some travel responsibly and got to dive very far outside the Great Lakes.

Stuart Carlton 34:54
Oh, wait, hold on. I forgot there's a way I got to do this. So do you have how many how many places do you have? You want to tell us about

Stephanie Gandulla 34:59
out Tell You About to your top

Stuart Carlton 35:03
two, your top two COVID dives. Alright, so we're gonna do a drumroll,

Stephanie Gandulla 35:07
but I feel bad. They're not in the Great Lakes. So

Stuart Carlton 35:09
I feel like I should. I don't care though this is Stephanie's top two places, the international audience beyond just the US and Canada, so it's okay. Don't want to know. All right, so we're gonna do a drumroll you're gonna name it, then we're gonna have like a symbol and then you're gonna tell us about it. It's a complicated dance that I always it's always right. And it never works out. I'm always like, Why do you make this so hard to hurt you moron? But then I instead of learning, which is what some people would do, I just figured next time we'll get it right. Okay, so I will do them in countdown order. So the number two best place to dive for Stephanie gundula During COVID is

Stephanie Gandulla 35:49
Cuba gardens of the Queen

Stuart Carlton 35:53
Cuba Oh, like duck Cuba,

Stephanie Gandulla 35:55
like that country of Cuba? And oh, maybe that wasn't fair. Because we went right. We went in February of 20. So maybe that's it's like right before everything.

Stuart Carlton 36:03
No, no, it counts. It counts. It's a global audience. No, that's good. So tell me about Cuba gardens of the Queen.

Stephanie Gandulla 36:10
So it's a another protected area of beautiful coral reef. And because of the level of protection it has, it's a coral reef that had does not look like many of the other world's coral reefs which are bleached. And you know, a lot less fish life and this is just a vibrant, beautiful place. You get to dive with sharks, which is awesome silky sharks and reef sharks, and also got to snorkel with a crocodile.

Stuart Carlton 36:40
No way.

Stephanie Gandulla 36:41
No, he's an alligator. Now I just confused myself. A toothy reptile. I got

Stuart Carlton 36:48
to try to eat you. If you tried to eat you might have been a crocodile.

Stephanie Gandulla 36:51
He did not. He's friendly.

Unknown Speaker 36:53
Super social, but

Stuart Carlton 36:56
I mean, I only have one arm now. But the thing is who needs to? Alright, and the number one place according to Stephanie gundula To dive during COVID I will point it to when we're ready.

Stephanie Gandulla 37:11
Thunder Bay National Marine Sanctuary

Stuart Carlton 37:15
for the way in Thunder Bay over dozens and dozens of shipwrecks up to I can't remember the numbers about 100. Was that right? Yes, that's about right. Yeah, and everything ranging from glass bottom boats. For total beginners like me or snorkeling for people who can swim, I can swim a course. And all the way up to just expert technical diving. And yeah, what is your favorite place to dive into? Like, do you dive the same site over and over? Is that a thing or do you like the novelty?

Stephanie Gandulla 37:42
Well, a little of both. Like I mentioned, we do put those mooring buoys out so we we go back to those same 40 Plus sites every year. You know, I guess I do visit a lot. I'd like to visit some of the ones I haven't I guess it just comes down to the necessity to getting there. And all that so a favorite site and Thunder Bay, I might have to go back to my favorite place and all the great lakes. Oh, actually, I'm gonna amend that my favorite dive site in Thunder Bay, which is actually just outside Thunder Bay proper. So Thunder Bay, you know is out of Alpena. It's like 10 miles long, 10 miles wide, big bay and just outside of it is a shipwreck called the Montana which is about 65 feet deep. I I love it because it's a it's a site that's not super deep. You know, recreational divers like Megan can go and visit it, but it's still has a ton of relief. It has a 30 foot high engine still standing. Right. It's super cool. It has a massive 10 foot diameter propeller just you know, the it's sitting on its keel. Two things I'll mention I love about it. It. It has burbot so so there's always a nine times out of 10 There's big burbot hanging out there. And I squirt the same one I started one of my buddies is down there every time. And then I do like that. It's named Montana, which many ships in the Great Lakes were because I happen to be from Montana.

Stuart Carlton 39:08
Oh, there we go. Well, that's great. So bourbon was one of the high picks we recently drafted fish. Because you know, you got a draft fish and verb. It was a high pick. They're the ones who sing during intimate moments.

Stephanie Gandulla 39:20
I did not know this. Yep, they do.

Stuart Carlton 39:24
So you can listen to that draft with Titus style. Heimer. And of course, the wonderful Katy O'Reilly. I'll put a link in the show notes. It was about three episodes ago. Yeah. And shipwrecked, Montana. That is also good. So we'll put links to that in the show notes also put links. So we spoke with Kathy green a few episodes ago, Episode 37, of the Wisconsin Maritime Museum, and she talked a lot about diving. And sort of the cool thing about the Great Lakes being how well everything is preserved, which is not guaranteed, especially as the lakes change, I think but anyway, so go check that out to teach me about the great lakes.com/ 37 And then we asked her who else we should talk to and she recommended you and I said Well, we already are Get on that.

Stephanie Gandulla 40:00
Anyway, Cathy's awesome. She's been my dive buddy before.

Stuart Carlton 40:04
There you go. There you go. Great. Well, Stephanie gundula, the research coordinator and marine archaeologist with the Thunder Bay National Marine Sanctuary. But more importantly to our purposes today, the host, the, what's your coordinator, coordinator of the 10th? Not the ninth. That's old news, the 10th annual Thunder Bay film festival. Go get yourself a thunder pass people just do it. Listen to these or watch these films. And it should be a lot of fun. But anyway, Stephanie, thank you for coming on and teaching us all about the Great Lakes.

Stephanie Gandulla 40:36
Thank you for having me. It's always a pleasure. And the next time I see you, I hope it's in El Pina.

Stuart Carlton 40:41
I agree. I agree.

Well, it's always a lot of fun talking to Stephanie. And she really is one of the holophane guests just super engaging and fun. And I'm fired up about this film festival, I think,

Megan Gunn 41:01
yeah, I am. I'm ready to watch all of the small videos. And then when my brain is ready to watch the longer videos,

Stuart Carlton 41:09
that's the thing is they have pandemic length videos. Right, right. And so you can start with the little five minute ones. And then, you know, if you're able to pay attention to a full 15 or 20, film, or longer, depending on where you're at, in your own particular journey. They have those available to it looks like a really cool stuff. I love that they do this. I'm actually I'm constantly jealous. I want to steal the idea for the Great Lakes secrets, programs, which of course we wouldn't ever do, but

Megan Gunn 41:38
we're getting the students involved from around the world. That's amazing.

Stuart Carlton 41:41
Yep. No, that's really great. That's really great. And of course, Meghan Goss was involved in it when she said that I was like, yep, yep, done. The least surprising thing ever. Well, before we get to the end of people to find out more about what you do, Megan, Marsha, where should they go?

Megan Gunn 41:55
You can find me on Instagram at the familiar faces project. And you can find me on Twitter at underscore t FFP. And then there is a website, the familiar faces project.org. That will be updated soon. They just wrapped up our summer research program that we were I guess I was coordinating for the last couple of years. We don't have funding for that anymore. And so it's now time to update it with some new

Stuart Carlton 42:21
fresh information. There we go. What kind of stuff to do under summer research, program,

Megan Gunn 42:25
anything and everything. My favorite part was that these are students, the students are participating. Our students that have really never had a chance to do research before. And so they learned all about the research project process, they got to learn about extension and outreach we actually worked with. I'm going to call her a Hall of Famer, teacher, everybody master Oh, definitely. Hall of Famer. Yep, they, my students worked with her high school students, her her biology students. And each of the groups got to work with a group of high school students and teach them about whatever that they were, their research was focusing on. And so there was a group that was focusing on trees, and they actually did soil composition. We had a group that was focusing on mammals. And so the students learned how to do mammal tracks, or they like they made mammal track molds. And then they went to go and identify the tracks that they could find around the school, we had a group that was focusing on stream ecology. And so her students went down and they got to look for macro invertebrates or aquatic insects in the in the streams. And it was just, it was just a lot of fun. And they, the students at the end their student, her students had to present what they learned to the rest of the class and a project type form. Some put together little videos, some put together posters, and they're just, they're so creative. And I don't think that my classmates were that creative when

Stuart Carlton 43:52
one thing that's great about working in a university and working with younger students, is it really it? It's really inspiring, and I do feel like you're at that level of creativity just seems to increase over time. Or maybe what it is as I get older, I get more stodgy and set in my ways and less creative. I like to prefer to think about the other. I think they're getting better. I've remained amazing. They're even more amazing. Oh, good. Well, that sounds awesome. Shall we do the credits? Yes.

Megan Gunn 44:21
Teach me about the Great Lakes is brought to you by the fine people at Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant, we encourage you to check out the great work we do it I figured out.org and i l i m Sea Grant on Facebook, Twitter, and other social media. Teach me about the Great Lakes is produced by hope charters, Carolyn Foley making done and reading miles. Ethan Chitty is our associate producer and fixer. Our super fun podcast artwork is by Joel Davenport. The show is edited by the awesome Penrose and I encourage you to check out her work at aspiring robot.com If you have a question or comment about the show, please email it to teach me about the great lakes@gmail.com or leave a message on our hotline at 765496 I SD. You can also follow the show on Twitter at Teach Great Lakes. Thanks for listening and keep grading those links

are you going to do a big five dive again? Or was that a one?

Stephanie Gandulla 45:26
That's kind of miserable.

Stuart Carlton 45:28
It sounded like it. I remember thinking I mean, you want to do it to do it, right? Yeah, it's like there's a like a fancy ice cream place in New Orleans and they have one thing refeed all eight scoops. You get it for free. And so me and my dad and brother did that once. And you know, you do it to do it, but you never want to do it a second time. It sounds miserable. Yeah, it was miserable. And actually in all honesty, we got we got smoked like we didn't even come close to finish it. Yeah, it was it was and like we're just all lying down like on the floor like just miserable. What do they call that thing? I can't remember. It's some goofy New Orleans related name. But anyway, yeah. And yeah, we did not even come close to eating the whole thing. So then we ended up just having like, $150 bill or whatever. It was at the ice cream shop. We didn't finish it. So their tactic worked. Yeah, exactly. Right, morons. Oh, I'm gonna get my name on the wall. Yeah, anyway, so the big five dive is the the marine archaeological equivalent. I've tried to eat the Never again. The great outdoors. This was a really bad movie in like the early night. Maybe it was good. I don't know. But they had to eat the big like 48 steak. Yeah. Oh, that's

Stephanie Gandulla 46:46
a great scene because they show John Candy and he's like looking at the last bite. Any.

Stuart Carlton 46:52
All right, well, I'll put a link to that in the show