[Stuart Carlton]
Teach me about the Great Lakes. Teach me about the Great Lakes. Welcome back to Teach Me About the Great Lakes, a twice monthly podcast in which I, a Great Lakes novice, ask people who are smarter and harder working than I am to teach me all about the Great Lakes.

My name is Stuart Carlton and I know a lot about getting 40% of the way into campus on your bike and deciding you should have wore the long undies today. But I don't know a lot about the Great Lakes. And that's the point of this year's show.

But this is a very special, the one, the only, Lakeys 2025. That's right. It is our annual celebration of all of the great works in the Great Lakes.

So you'll double G there. We're lucky to be joined today by a couple of our good friends. Number one, you know her, you love her, but not as much as she loves the lakes, Megan Gunn.

[Megan Gunn]
Hi Stuart.

[Stuart Carlton]
Hello Megan, the lake lover, Gunn, Aquatic Outreach, Aquatic Education Associate. Also joined today by Natty S as in super, super Morrison.

What's up Natty?

[Natty Morrison]
Hey Stuart.

[Stuart Carlton]
You know, I was thinking you are no longer quite so new as an employee.

You've been here for almost a year now. You may not know that.

[Natty Morrison]
Wait, what?

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah. Almost a year.

[Natty Morrison]
I can't believe, that can't be right.

[Stuart Carlton]
I mean, it can't be right in the sense of boy, these suckers rock it by.

[Natty Morrison]
But I just want to say, it's just a pleasure to be here. It's just a magical night. And I'm just, I'm, I'm just, it's a pleasure to be here.

[Stuart Carlton]
I wish you had told me you were going to wear a tux. I would have dressed better.

[Natty Morrison]
Yeah. It does not fit as you can tell. The cummerbund is.

[Stuart Carlton]
What does anymore?

[Natty Morrison]
Where is the cummerbund?

[Stuart Carlton]
It's right above the, uh, cummerbutt.

[Natty Morrison]
The cummerbund and the cummerbutt. Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
I'm wearing, actually, uh, I'm wearing my official teach me about the Great Lakes, uh, not my logo tee, which you can order at the secret store that I can't tell you the location of, but it does exist.

[Natty Morrison]
What does it say?

[Stuart Carlton]
This is my eat goby dogs.

[Natty Morrison]
From the side, because I only it looked like it said, it said eat my dog, eat my dog, my dog. Kind of the Bart Simpson analog to that. The original line was not my shorts.

It was eat my dog. Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
My dog's dead Natty. Anyway, this is the Lakeys. So the Lakeys, as you know, is quite possibly not the least prestigious podcast related Great Lakes award that there are.

And so what we do is every year we have a series of, we ask people for nominations in a series of categories and we use our extensive Great Lake knowledge and the listener nominations, uh, to come up with winners across the categories. Now the point, I think it's important to say the point of this is not exactly to say that, uh, we know the best stuff and we are selecting the best stuff, but it's more celebration. Right.

And on top of that, it's an award ceremony in the open, which means you'll hear us talking over what we think should win or maybe negotiating or trading off or whatever, because award ceremonies are fundamentally kind of stupid. Um, and then when we do them, they're especially stupid, uh, because there's so much great stuff out there, but there's only one Lakey.

[Natty Morrison]
Right.

[Stuart Carlton]
And so, uh, um, we fully recognize that. And so take it in that spirit. Not that we are the arbiters of quality, although I am, but, uh, I'm not actually, uh, but, but we are here to share all of this great work with that.

Let's jump right in.

[Megan Gunn]
I'm ready.

[Stuart Carlton]
That's the envelope.

[Megan Gunn]
I've never been as I am as you.

[Stuart Carlton]
Never been as prepared. Yeah. All right.

Uh, the first category is the, uh, science communication of the year. Now the idea behind the science communication of the year is this more of a one-off thing rather than an ongoing series is the idea of science communication of the year. And there were a lot of cool science programs, uh, this year science communication bits this year, actually.

So, uh, I think there's a lot of great things you could have picked, but only one can win a Lakey. Anybody want to start? Natty, what was your favorite piece of science communication you came across this year?

[Natty Morrison]
Uh, you know, I, when looking through these, I, I have to admit, I did see a familiar name, somebody whose work I'm familiar with. And so I maybe felt a little biased, but I did review all of the nominations, you know, well into the night. And my favorite, uh, was, uh, making fish leather with Wisconsin Sea Grant, a video produced by Wisconsin Sea Grant and specifically Bonnie Willison.

[Stuart Carlton]
Bonnie Willison.

[Natty Morrison]
An absolute, the goat of video within the Sea Grant network.

[Stuart Carlton]
Lakey award-winning Bonnie Willison actually.

[Natty Morrison]
Previous Lakey award winner?

[Stuart Carlton]
Oh yes. Lakey award winner for introduced a podcast they did on invasives and also the water we swim in. Is that what it's called?

That was another great podcast. Bonnie does a lot of great work.

[Natty Morrison]
She does. She is really like the way that she is able to tell stories, uh, specifically the stories of our, of the different work done by specialists throughout the program to really give it a, a look and a feel, um, you know, both visually and just emotionally that what she does with sound and, you know, and she really is just a consummate professional. So, um, had to give, had to give it to, had to give it to Bonnie.

[Stuart Carlton]
All right. So there's one option is a fish leather, uh, video video.

[Megan Gunn]
Yeah.

[Natty Morrison]
Yes. Yes.

[Stuart Carlton]
Video video, uh, by our friends in Wisconsin Sea Grant. Also, by the way, our nominations are very Wisconsin and Michigan Sea Grant heavy. I would like to point this out.

[Megan Gunn]
That's where our friends are that, that submit all the nominations.

[Stuart Carlton]
I guess I would like to comment about the staff at Illinois Union. We need to do some in-reach.

[Natty Morrison]
No, no, no, no, no. We don't want to, I mean, you know, it's, that's the thing we're, we're taking ourselves out of the running.

[Stuart Carlton]
That is the thing.

[Natty Morrison]
Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
Unless, yeah, yeah, no, we, we try not to focus on the one thing I was told when we started this by our now former director, Thomas Hook, um, was yeah, you can do a podcast, but don't make it all Sea Grant is awesome, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. And so of course we're awesome. We win all the Lakeys, but we're not even nominated.

Megan, what'd you have?

[Megan Gunn]
Okay. So I really liked the fish leather one also, but I also really liked the all too clear film. Um, it talks about going like deep diving into the great lakes and it's showing underwater footage and revealing how like the invasive muscles have turned all of the, like what used to be vast desert land into just muscle fields.

Um, and it shows like how things have changed and why restoring the balance matters. It was really incredible.

[Stuart Carlton]
That is. And they, uh, we've been seeing them for a few years now. They were waiting, they've been working on that film.

That's the people that inspired planet. And they were at Iaglar a few years ago, I think in Toronto, I first saw some of their footage. Um, and then I think they were there again in, uh, what's the little joint North of Detroit, um, Windsor, uh, uh, where I went to the casino where they carded me despite being well into my forties.

It was super exciting. So love Windsor. Thank you.

[Megan Gunn]
They, so they're going to be, um, premiering. They've been doing, you can watch it free in Canada. Um, but they are going to have a documentary screening in Michigan.

It would be cool to bring them to this campus if possible.

[Stuart Carlton]
It would. Yeah. If only we knew the heads of the great lakes science initiative.

[Megan Gunn]
Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
Excellent. Well, my, uh, nomination is actually the same people, uh, Yvonne, uh, Draybert or Draybert. I'm not sure.

And Zach Melnick. Um, uh, but they also had this thing, this underwater live stream from the freshwater Everest, they call it a superior shoal. And so superior shoal is this huge underwater mountain.

It's in the middle of Lake Superior. It's like 40 or 50 miles from the nearest coastline. It's in Canadian waters, but it's so big that at the highest point, um, it's only 21 feet below the surface of the water.

And so there are some shipwrecks there potentially of legend. Legend says that the Edmund Fitzgerald might've hit that and sunk. I'm not sure, but so they did a live stream.

They use some of that same underwater drone technology. And, um, and this is, you can see it on YouTube. It's about an hour and a half long or so.

And, uh, they're zooming around there. You're looking at fish and everything. And they actually got, uh, uh, uh, professor there with them.

Um, Dr. Michael Rennie. And he was sort of reviewing like the fish and stuff as they went over it. And they were hoping to see something, uh, kind of cool.

Uh, like they, I mean, they wanted a shipwreck, let's be honest. They didn't get a shipwreck. Everybody wants a shipwreck.

Uh, but, um, they, uh, saw like all these different fish out there in the environment. That was awesome. Uh, and, um, they saw at one point they're like magnetic anomalies introduced because of the mountain.

And so one day I wrote down this quote, North ain't North at the moment. And that's fine when you're in a freshwater drone, but I'm not so sure otherwise. Um, so what I love about this is there's a great example of using new technology, uh, both in terms of the drones and the streaming for a really old idea.

A lot of people got them in this field because of Jacques Cousteau, or if you're a little bit younger, maybe because of Shark Week, uh, which I courted my very wife watching Shark Week in my dorm room. It was all Shark Week and Led Zeppelin on vinyl.

[Natty Morrison]
And, um, see if they matched up at all. Like if you played, you know, like.

[Stuart Carlton]
Oh, right. You have to put Shark Week with Led Zeppelin.

[Natty Morrison]
Exactly. Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
Uh, no, no.

[Natty Morrison]
Okay. Well, missed your opportunity. I guess she's your wife now.

[Stuart Carlton]
So you can't go back to college.

[Natty Morrison]
Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
I mean you can, but it'd be kind of lame anyway. Uh, and so, um, I really love that for that reason. Uh, because this is in that tradition, right?

This is an old idea with new technology introduced in a new way of doing it. And we've done some live streaming with Ask Dr. Fish, and it's really challenging and they did a nice pro job. Uh, so I really liked that from those same people.

Um, other things that I thought before we get there, other things that I saw that were worth mentioning, Michigan Sea Grant, they have a cool new poster. They have a Lamprey poster.

[Megan Gunn]
Yeah. Lampreys are cool

[Natty Morrison]
The lamprey posters are great.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah. They always have posters.

[Natty Morrison]
Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
Why don't we have posters?

[Natty Morrison]
We just haven't figured out the technology yet.

[Stuart Carlton]
Okay.

[Natty Morrison]
We just, you know, one day.

[Stuart Carlton]
I just moved in. So listeners, so, you know, I just moved into a new office, uh, related to the fact that Thomas is our former director and I've got like this wall right here. I'm looking at it. That needs like a, it needs a lot of poster.

Yeah. So I, I actually literally called our friend Geneva today. I was like, wait a minute.

As I was reviewing the Lakey stuff, I was like, I need a poster. I need a bigger one though.

[Megan Gunn]
I've got some cool posters for you.

[Stuart Carlton]
I want to see if I can get a custom run large poster from Michigan Sea Grant.

[Megan Gunn]
Okay.

[Natty Morrison]
One of those fat head posters.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah. Right. Yeah.

No.

[Megan Gunn]
Put it across the whole thing.

[Natty Morrison]
Yeah, Yeah, Yeah

[Stuart Carlton]
I mean, we'll pay for it, but anyway, I'm just wondering, I want to see if I have that kind of juice.

[Natty Morrison]
Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
Sad thing is now that I'm mentioning on here though, and I probably don't, so the listeners are going to write it anyway. All right. Um, and the Great Lakes Commission, uh, also has a data dashboard.

It's pretty cool. It's, it's a draft still, um, on agriculture, climate and water use in the Great Lakes. And those are the issues, agriculture, water use and climate and development are the issues.

[Natty Morrison]
The big three.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yep. All right. Well, we each have a strong nomination in this.

And I feel like, uh, since we have two from the All Too Clear people, uh, from, uh, Inspired Planet, uh, I feel like we could probably go with one of those. As much as we love, uh, past Lakey award winner, multiple time teach me about the Great Lakes gas money.

[Megan Gunn]
And it was really good.

[Stuart Carlton]
It was really good. Um, I don't know. So what do we want to do?

I think.

[Megan Gunn]
Let's go with the All Too Clear people.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah. But we got to pick one. They have two products.

[Megan Gunn]
Oh, one of them? Okay. Well, I didn't watch the, I didn't watch Freshwater Everest.

I only watched.

[Stuart Carlton]
Alright. Here's what you do. You have a, you have a large screen TV.

[Megan Gunn]
I do.

[Stuart Carlton]
All right.

Go home, put it on your large screen TV on YouTube. Sit back, relax. However it is that you relax.

All right. Put that sucker on and watch Superior Shoal Underwater Mountain, which I of course knew all about.

[Natty Morrison]
And then you want us to just like, and then you will come back and we'll make the decision.

[Stuart Carlton]
And then you'll come in and say, Stuart, you were right. All Too Clear, of course a critical documentary, but there are a lot of great documentaries. There's only one, uh, underwater live stream from the Freshwater Everest.

And so that's why I think that should be our Lakey winner this year.

[Megan Gunn]
I'm with it.

[Natty Morrison]
Sure.

[Stuart Carlton]
All right. Congratulations. Congratulations to, uh, Yvonne Drebert.

Boy, we should ask for a little pronunciation guide on that one. And Zach Melnick for the really awesome job and the really awesome work on All Too Clear. And we spoke in Toronto about getting him on the show.

I think it's time.

[Megan Gunn]
Yeah, it's time.

[Stuart Carlton]
Excellent. Page two.

[Megan Gunn]
Circling back in the new year.

[Stuart Carlton]
Outreach program of the year. The idea here is this is something that is, uh, takes place over multiple, uh, events, multiple days. It's an ongoing program.

A lot of cool stuff here. Uh, Megan, why don't you start this time?

[Megan Gunn]
Uh, I think the one I'm going to choose is from our friends at Michigan Sea Grant. I mean, I love things that involve family members. Like I love youth stuff, but involving family members and generational stuff.

Um, their Riverside Lake Surgeon release seems like an incredible program. And it was in the Saginaw Bay area and the public got to learn and meet the juvenile Lake Surgeon, and then they got to release them back into the water. And so like the toddlers and the grandparents got to scoop the Lake Surgeon, the baby Lake Surgeon up in a little bucket and then release them into the river.

And so this is something that they're trying to do every year. And there are some, some families that come back every year and participate in that. But I thought that was really amazing.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah, that is real. So every year they're doing this with these little Lake Surgeon.

[Megan Gunn]
Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
That is super fun. And have you seen young baby Lake Surgeon?

[Megan Gunn]
I have. Super cute.

They're adorable.

[Stuart Carlton]
Super cute. Oh yeah. You seen a Lake Surgeon?

[Megan Gunn]
Kiss them on their little noses.

[Stuart Carlton]
You what?

[Megan Gunn]
No, I did.

I want to.

[Stuart Carlton]
Oh, I was like, nevermind.

[Megan Gunn]
Hold on. No, zoonic disease. Don't kiss animals in their faces.

[Stuart Carlton]
What about dogs?

[Natty Morrison]
Well, Stewart, perhaps that would have, is that what happened to your dog? I'm so sorry. I hate, look, I'm just trying to, I'm trying to, I'm trying to help you process the grief here.

[Stuart Carlton]
It's okay. It was, it was, it was four or five years ago.

[Natty Morrison]
Well, which one was it? Four or five?

[Stuart Carlton]
What's your nomination Natty?

[Natty Morrison]
Uh, so the outreach program

[Stuart Carlton]
story keeps changing.

[Natty Morrison]
Which story? Mine?

[Stuart Carlton]
No, mine about the, what you got?

[Natty Morrison]
Uh, so the one that I found to be the most that spoke to me was the 100% Great Lakes Fish Pledge. So this is a bi-national outreach program that invites commercial fish processors, aquaculture producers, uh, related companies across eight U.S. states, a lot. It's about eight U.S. states and two Canadian provinces, um, to publicly commit to fully utilizing every fish they catch, raise, or handle by the end of 2025. Um, this has recruited dozens of signatories. Um, and let's see, it's in 2025, the pledge and the broader 100% Great Lakes Fish Initiative were recognized internationally as a model for reducing food loss and creating circular place-based value chains. And, uh, you know, in my mind, I feel like as somebody who struggles with the, I love to eat fish.

I love delicious fish. And when I see a fish and it's caught, I feel terrible about myself. So I am, with somebody who, who grapples with that back and forth, I think certainly the most, uh, uh, reasonable or effective or, or, or moral thing to do in those situations is to be, to, to not be wasteful and to not have to eliminate more species than we must in my pursuit for delicious fish.

I, it is crazy how the split in me right now, I, I truly...

[Stuart Carlton]
Is that fish specific, your, your split or like, like, so you're going to go out and get a burger?

[Natty Morrison]
Oh yeah. Here's the thing. I couldn't, I, okay.

If I'm being real, like, I don't think that I can think of an ethical reason to consume an animal, but I 100% I'm not a vegetarian, but it's like...

[Megan Gunn]
Maybe you should think about being a vegetarian.

[Natty Morrison]
Sure. I think about it all the time. And then I, but then I'm like, I'm like, whoa, you gotta, what kind of whoppers you guys got here or whatever.

And if I ever, somebody's like, you should meet your meat. I'm like, absolutely not. I couldn't.

I mean, not that I wouldn't do that, but the second I would, there was one day I'm going to, sorry, I'm going to tell this story, but, uh, Megan Gunn, who, with whom I share an office with...

[Stuart Carlton]
The lake lover herself.

[Natty Morrison]
And truly it's a lovely office.

I couldn't imagine a better office mate. Our colleague, uh, one day came in with a little fish in a bucket that she had caught.

[Megan Gunn]
Oh, I remember that.

[Natty Morrison]
Did you eat it? No, I did not. I, she had a bucket of fish in a bucket and I thought, oh my gosh, look at this little fish.

And as I was looking at it and learning about this fish in this bucket, I also learned that that fish would then be later, uh, uh, euthanized to, so that it can be used as a teaching aspect, teaching tool.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

[Natty Morrison]
And she said, so it was in that bucket and I went, oh, and she said, she put, she goes, I'm going to do that in a minute, but I'll be right back.

I have to go to a meeting. And she put the fish down on the table in the bucket. And I was just in, basically it was like dead man walking in that moment.

And I sat there trying to type and I could hear it just sort of swimming around, looking over my shoulder, it not knowing what was going to happen. And I just didn't know what to do. So I just went out and got in my car and waited until the, until the moment was over.

[Megan Gunn]
I'm so sorry. No, no, no.

[Natty Morrison]
And again, I eat fish. This is the dumb, crazy thing about it. So what I'm saying is that like that feeling in me, we're part of a food chain, we're part of a food web.

You know, if I'm going to eat fish, if I'm going to, if people are going to produce fish, I think it is in the best interest of humanity and our, and morality and general environmental consciousness to try to make a pledge to be 100% efficient if possible. That is why I voted for that. You can get that out if you need to.

[Stuart Carlton]
No, no, that's, that's, that's good. And so I think what you're getting at is there's a lot of complexity involved. I mean, in any, certainly in like our dietary decisions.

I mean, I think a lot of times we don't make decisions, right? Or we just default to what's easy. But, but, but what I love about the 100% Clean Fish Initiative is, is what you're saying, but what I love about it as a Lakey nominee is it points to the complexity of many Great Lakes issues, right?

Is this bi-national, it's across eight different states. It's working on a really complicated, on aspects of a really complicated issue. Because the one thing that's become really evident to me in the, at this point, eight years I've been here, is like the Great Lakes are, are big in every sense of the word.

And there, and, and there are a lot of big challenges and those big challenges require big interdisciplinary, international solutions, right? I hesitate to use solutions because I don't think we solve problems, but, but to address them, it's going to take that kind of cooperation. And so that's what I really love about the Fish Initiative.

[Natty Morrison]
Absolutely.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah. And I think I'm going to vote for that too, but I did want to mention my Sea Grant Academy class, classmate Chris Stepanuk at the University of Vermont, Lake Champlain Sea Grant, did a really amazing program on reducing salt use, using salt to like fight off ice on campus there. And so if you don't know, salt is a, road salt is a big problem, or just salt in general is a big problem.

It goes into the lakes and, and, and changes the, the water chemistry there. In addition to like the wear and tear causes on my bike that I ride in and whatever. Right.

And so she worked across campus with custodians and did a bunch of workshops and trainings. They did them in five different languages, English, French, Vietnamese, Chinese, Nepali. Yeah.

And they released videos. You can check them out on YouTube. We'll link to them in the show notes with this cool custodian guy, like a great video requires like a great kind of protagonist.

And this guy, he does it in English and French. I think those are the two languages he does. But it's these neat videos on this really important issue.

And so that's something they started to do across campus, but you know, it's applicable beyond just the campus. What I really love about that is that sort of multilingual approach that they took. We're in an era right now where there's a lot of concern about how we invest our resources in, in serving different groups.

And there's without going into details that would not be appropriate to go into. There's a lot of thought about that right now. But what I love about this video series is that it shows the importance of meeting people where they are, because if your custodial staff speaks five different languages and you're only trying to reach them in English, then you're not being effective communicators.

And so this shows the importance of that, I think, regardless of how you feel on some of the other issues, meeting your audience where they are as critical science communication. And so this work on a very important issue, I think is a great example of why that is important. And so my, uh, uh, Lakey nomination goes to, uh, Dr. Chris Stepanuk at Lake Champlain Sea Grant. But I think I'm with you, Natty. I think we want to go big. We want to go bi-national.

[Megan Gunn]
Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
We want to go a hundred percent fish initiative.

[Natty Morrison]
A hundred percent.

[Stuart Carlton]
A hundred percent.

[Megan Gunn]
I'm a hundred percent.

[Natty Morrison]
That's my favorite is in like, uh, if you see like in a marketing, like a, for a product, it'll be like, it's a hundred percent of sustainable. Like, it's like, how could you know that something is 100%? But here's one where I know because there are, it is 100% because it's clearly outlined.

I love it. I love that. I love that.

I chose the winner. It feels like I won in some ways. Congratulations.

[Stuart Carlton]
All right. Yeah.

Natty, nice work, man.

[Natty Morrison]
Thank you, dude. Honestly. Thank you so much.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah. All right.

Next up, Great Lake news event.

[Natty Morrison]
Wait, where's the envelope? Ah.

[Stuart Carlton]
And right now, since it's the Great Lakes news, of course, we will put in our Great Lakes news theme song. And now it's time for the Great Lakes news. Here's your host, Stuart Carlton.

Thank you for that, Stuart. Natty, what is your nomination for the Great Lakes news event of the year?

[Natty Morrison]
It's the story that made me cry. It's specifically the Great Lakes whitefish population decline. This is a story that was published in Bridge Magazine, I believe it was called.

And it was written by Kelly House, which is an excellent name, by the way. But it's one of the best pieces of scientific reporting that I've ever read. It is also a devastating story and just filled with so much emotion.

It takes the story of a Great Lakes fisherman named Richard Voda, who fishes for whitefish in Lake Michigan. It starts off with him talking about a logbook that he keeps that he intended to give to his children one day when they took over the business. He's a member of the Chippewa Indians.

He's a third generation commercial fisherman. And he is dealing with the overfishing and the sort of decline of the whitefish population. And it just weaves in so much human story and emotion and just so many issues concerning environmental issues, impact to industry, impact to small businesses, what it does to families, what it does to people being able to earn their well-being, to food chain and supply chain stuff.

It is a fantastic read. We had several nominations for this and I just could not ignore it. This was absolutely my favorite.

[Stuart Carlton]
It's a well-written story and it's an important one. So Lake Whitefish, it's a native to the Great Lakes species that has been the cornerstone of Great Lakes commercial fisheries in a lot of places and a really vital resource for a lot of indigenous communities where they still fish it. And it's also a pretty important link in the food web because what it does is it transfers water, not water, excuse me, it transfers energy from the bottom of the lake into the upper water column, right?

A lot of ways you can think about different parts of the food web is by transferring energy from one part to another. And so that's part of what they serve is that function and it helps us.

[Natty Morrison]
The fish or the fishing?

[Stuart Carlton]
The fish, the fish.

[Natty Morrison]
And then the act of fishing?

[Stuart Carlton]
Well, no, no, they transfer energy by eating. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Like you can think about hurricanes as part of their job is they're moving energy through the atmosphere, right?

And the same here is like when you think about food chain and food web dynamics, you're basically, you know, your primary producers make energy, right? That's your plants or your algaes or whatever. And then that energy needs to make its way up through the food chain.

And it does that, I'm sorry to say, Natty, by eating fish.

[Natty Morrison]
That's fine.

[Stuart Carlton]
And so the Lake Whitefish are important there, but their populations have really been crashing lately or because of the mussels.

[Megan Gunn]
Up to 90% since the 90s.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yep. Yeah.

And that's why that all too clear documentary and that's why that's what that's all about. It's like the Lake Michigan now, if you go, it looks like the places I used to live in Florida, you know, with this clear blue water, which is really pretty, but it's not very productive. There's not a lot of that.

And so that's been a big part of the problem with the Whitefish population. Interesting.

[Natty Morrison]
I also am just finding out that when it's clear water, that doesn't, that means that's not always so good.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah, no, not here. Lake Michigan needs to be darker. Interesting.

And, and so that came to a head this year because there was a new stock assessment models, essentially, is what it was showing that a revising sort of the way we looked at it. And it turns out that like the Whitefish populations are really in trouble. And for all of the reasons you talk about, it's, it's really important.

And that story, you're right, did a really nice job of, you know, that's a, that's a, that's an old journalism and science writing technique. You take the particular and use it to illustrate the general.

[Natty Morrison]
Absolutely.

[Stuart Carlton]
They did a nice job. Yeah. Fantastic.

A fantastic piece of work. Yeah. That was my nominee as well.

Megan, how about you?

[Megan Gunn]
That was mine. It's mine also. And I think that what was the scariest to me is that after they done all this modeling that they said, like, if we don't do something bold, the Whitefish population could vanish within a decade.

That is too soon.

[Natty Morrison]
Yes. Yeah. And so unanimous choice, unanimous choice.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah. Congratulations. Congratulations declining Whitefish population.

[Natty Morrison]
Well, I mean, you are the great reporting on it. You know, yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
Other ones worth mentioning. Boy, a lot of people mentioned, you might not know this listener, but 2025 was the 50th anniversary of the crash of the Edmund Fitzgerald.

[Natty Morrison]
When was it ever?

[Stuart Carlton]
Not the song, but the actual wreck.

[Natty Morrison]
When did the song come out?

[Stuart Carlton]
Uh, 19, I don't know. Hold on. Maybe we'll celebrate it then.

[Natty Morrison]
1976.

[Stuart Carlton]
I almost said 74, but that wouldn't make a lot of sense. Um, on account of it being the 50th anniversary.

Math doesn't work out there. The other one that I thought, um, is, uh, in the last year or so, there's been a kind of a, a, a radical re-imagining of how science funding works in the Great Lakes and beyond. And I think that is an important new story that is worth focusing on.

[Natty Morrison]
Yes. I agree. Yes.

I want to choose my words carefully here.

[Stuart Carlton]
Just leave it at, yes, I agree. All right. Next up.

Great Lakes research finding. Oh yeah. Research finding of the...

[Megan Gunn]
I'm torn.

[Stuart Carlton]
You're torn.

[Megan Gunn]
I'm torn between...

[Stuart Carlton]
Like Natalie Imbruglia.

[Megan Gunn]
Yes. I don't understand that reference, but I'm sure...

[Stuart Carlton]
It was a music video in the 90s.

[Megan Gunn]
So I was torn, but I think that I'm going to go with, just because it sounds like fun. Um, the ship goo discovery.

[Natty Morrison]
Oh, I love it.

[Megan Gunn]
Wait, tell me this one. The ship goo. So the research vessel Blue Heron, um, found a greasy substance that was hiding, um, in the rudder shaft.

They were actually new microbes. And I thought that was so neat. Just like goo is, but these organisms, like they'll go in there, corrode the metal and they produce methane.

And, um, it could be a biofuel in the future. Who knows? But they, you can discover some really cool things in the messiest of places.

Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
You could say it might be a biofuel, but really it's just cool to find a species in your ship goo.

[Megan Gunn]
Yeah. In your goo.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah. At that same age we were talking about earlier.

[Megan Gunn]
Yes.

[Stuart Carlton]
My dorm room definitely had some goo that probably had new species because, yeah, that was a solid one. I wrote that down too.

Dorm room goo is, there's definitely species in dorm room goo.

[Natty Morrison]
Yes.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah.

Uh, yeah. Uh, I had, um, I had that as a, as a runner up. For me, I, uh, had this one paper on sea lamprey control reduction.

Um, so this was a big deal. So, uh, one of the original invasives that we were worried about in the great lakes of the sea lamprey, which got introduced by ship ballast water, I think. Um, you can read all about that in death and life of the great lakes, which I think is a book.

I don't remember the name of the author though. And, um, but, uh, so they use a lamperside to, uh, each year. Um, they, they, well, sorry, Natty, but they kill the lampreys and they're an invasive, they're a parasitic fish, right?

They're often called the vampires of the great lakes, which would be fun for a Halloween episode. Um, but they kill native species like trout and white fish also. Um, and they trigger, actually they caused a big fishery collapse in the mid 20th century.

Uh, and so it's just like this nonstop control program and that stopped during COVID-19 or slowed down during COVID-19. And we knew this was a problem. And so this year, finally, there was a paper published in fisheries magazine written by, uh, Benjamin Mary Quay and others.

Um, uh, Benjamin is out of the, uh, USGS great lake science center, um, Hammond Bay biological station that's in Millersburg, Michigan. And, um, what I like about this paper is it's sort of a couple of things. One, it shows the really important work that people at the USGS great lake science center is doing, are doing, excuse me.

Um, and then, uh, on top of that, it's another thing that shows, I really like these things that sort of help illustrate how complicated the great lakes are, right? So here that we have this super intensive effort every year to control lamprey that were introduced by us, um, so that they don't, uh, cause fishery collapses or population collapses of these other fishes. And it's completely, uh, just bananas that we have to do this every year, but we do.

And this paper shows that we do or else what happens. And, and so to me, um, it shows the complicated relationship that we have with this complicated resource. And so I really liked that.

So, uh, that is my nominee. Excellent.

[Natty Morrison]
Um, I only speak when prompted.

[Stuart Carlton]
Natty.

[Natty Morrison]
Yes.

Sorry. Um, I also had chosen so well, I guess I'm going back and forth here cause I, I I'm torn here. I'm torn.

Uh, I loved the, she's already torn. So yeah, yeah. I'm torn too.

I'm rip torn. Rip torn. I'm rip torn.

RIP rip torn. Rip. All right.

Yeah. Rip rip torn. Oh, gotta keep that in.

[Stuart Carlton]
That's the cold right there.

[Natty Morrison]
I also loved the ship goo story. And one of, I think the one only other part that I'll mention about the ship goo story and that I like so much is the name of it, which is all one word ship goo zero zero one, which looks like a, a, like an AOL instant messenger.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah, yeah, yeah, that was mine.

[Natty Morrison]
Yeah. Ship goo 01.

[Stuart Carlton]
We're sharing Natalie and Brooklyn videos with each other.

[Natty Morrison]
I don't think that you could share videos on AOL instant messenger. I mean, unless you had like, unless you had, what's the, I was actually, I was, I have really fast internet. Were you one of those?

[Stuart Carlton]
No, no, no, no, no. But I'm worse. So our age is like the one where like all this stuff is like the fulcrum of all this.

Right. So I was an ICQ guy, which was before AOL instant messenger came out as an ICQ. And you had like a little number.

Like you didn't even have a username. I don't think you just had.

[Natty Morrison]
Oh, so it was just like, it was like a social security number.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah, exactly. Except there's your ICQ number. And then we'd go UH OH every time you get a message. UH OH

[Natty Morrison]
Was that the only sound that I could do?

[Stuart Carlton]
That was the one I used. I don't know.

[Natty Morrison]
That must've been like some panic. If I hear it's so cute, but it's also like,

[Stuart Carlton]
what's your other story? We're good. What's your, so you like this goo, love a good goo.

[Natty Morrison]
I love the, I love a good goo. I love the story of it. I also voted for, um, uh, the microplastics like eerie story or, or

[Megan Gunn]
that was what I was torn on.

[Natty Morrison]
Uh, well, uh, so it's a bummer. It's, it's not as fun as ship goo. That's the little say.

But I think that so many people, you know, obviously microplastics were at the forefront of a lot of discussions in the scientific community. I think because the more that we find out about it, the more we're like, it's, it's daunting, concerning. Uh, and, uh, they did a recent sampling.

This was actually performed by, um, Sherry, a, um, Mason, um, or Sam, um, I think it's well, it says Sherry there. Dr. Sherry, a Sam Mason. It's a lot of, I don't know, which I'll say Dr. Mason, um, had led

[Stuart Carlton]
Well you're in a hole. Just go for a doctor. Didn't find yourself digging. Just, just stop digging.

Dr. Mason. Yeah.

[Natty Morrison]
Dr. Mason, uh, led a sampling effort, uh, in Lake Erie, uh, and found that, uh, there was nearly a 22 times, 22 X increase in abundance across five States over the past 30 years. Um, and you know, it's just, we're, we're finding out not only like how much microplastic there, but how small microplastic, the micro in the microplastics, the micro aspect of it keeps getting smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller and smaller. And I feel like this was just the concept of microplastics was, like I said, just at the forefront of everybody's mind.

It is a conversation that we will probably continue to be having in the years to come as we're potentially dealing with the fallout of what's happening, what they're causing, what health problems are contributing to in our, um, in our species, in our drinking water. So for that, I found this one and this was also nominated several times. Yeah.

So I will say that just to be independent, unique, I will say that this one is my nomination. Okay.

[Megan Gunn]
This was the one that I was torn with. You were torn with the other one. Well, yeah, but I will say fun fact, um, this discovery was made on board the shipboard science immersion that we lead with the seagull.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yes. Interesting. So here's the question.

Do we want to promote our awesome shipboard science work or do we want, you know, something that's maybe a little bit fun?

[Megan Gunn]
I mean, I like the goo.

[Natty Morrison]
Let's go fun. Let's go goo.

[Stuart Carlton]
We're going goo.

[Natty Morrison]
Congratulations.

[Stuart Carlton]
Of all yours. Ship goo double O one.

[Megan Gunn]
Congratulations.

[Natty Morrison]
It's so funny that it's double O because they're like, we're probably going to find not only another one, but potentially 999 more.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah. That's the thing.

[Megan Gunn]
But only three digits.

[Natty Morrison]
It's like Y2K at that point. It's like the goo is going to reset itself.

[Stuart Carlton]
Excellent. Coolest thing that you learned listening to teach me about. I feel like the envelope.

[Natty Morrison]
Well, you already started it.

[Stuart Carlton]
So I feel like we could just smoothly move past it and pretend it didn't happen.

[Natty Morrison]
Well, I'm a prop work guy. I'm a prop working guy.

[Stuart Carlton]
All right. Well, maybe you should find a job in Foley artistry.

[Natty Morrison]
That's you opening the envelope.

[Stuart Carlton]
Sorry, Sandy.

[Natty Morrison]
No, come on.

That's really good. You can just double that. All right.

[Stuart Carlton]
Johnny Carson used to do that. You know, they had the amazing. Oh, shoot.

What was the name of the character?

[Natty Morrison]
Oh, the thing where he would.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah. But I liked Kreskin. No, Kreskin was the mentalist guy who bent spools.

What was the Johnny Carson? It doesn't matter. But he would always rip the corner of the envelope and then blow in it.

I always loved that. Same way every time. All right.

[Natty Morrison]
All right.

[Stuart Carlton]
Coolest thing you learned listening to teach me about the Great Lakes this year. Now, Natty, since around this time last year, you were listening intensely as you got ready to interview for your job.

[Natty Morrison]
Yeah, every day.

[Stuart Carlton]
Every day. And then since then, you love the show so much.

[Natty Morrison]
Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
Every day.

[Natty Morrison]
What was my favorite?

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah, what's the coolest thing you learned?

[Natty Morrison]
Groins, groins, groins, groins, groins, groins.

Yeah. Well, this episode.

[Stuart Carlton]
Tell me about your groins.

[Natty Morrison]
No, no jokes. This is important. Groins, Groin Fields, which was featured in episode 112, in which you guys interviewed Dr. Sarah Peterson, Dr. Hillary Glandon, both excellent specialists here at Illinois Indiana Sea Grant, discussed the effect, the effectiveness and the impact of man-made structures on coastal communities and coastal resilience. And I love this because I... This is a bit of a self-promotion here, but I'm going to do it anyway. I was lucky enough to work with Sarah on her video series, Shaping the Shoreline, in which we discussed a variety of different man-made structures and those same impacts I mentioned.

And working on it was really a tremendous experience, learning about those things. And it was so cool to be able to listen to this episode and learn even more than I had learned just by working on that video series. I think the work that that coastal program is doing is excellent.

And I just was riveted, riveted by every word of this episode.

[Stuart Carlton]
Riveted.

[Megan Gunn]
I'm ready.

[Natty Morrison]
Go for it.

[Megan Gunn]
I was trying to find the episode number. But our recent episode about the invasive species was my favorite of the nominations that were given. It was actually really fun to interview Elle and Brian and Katie and just find out all about this stuff, cloning crayfish and all the weird things that...

[Stuart Carlton]
That was episode 113. Spoiler alert. This is not fine.

I couldn't make that one. But those are... Hold on now.

That's got Elle Lower on it. Dr. Catfish, Katie O'Reilly, and Teach Me About the Great Lakes Hall of Famer, Brian Roth.

[Megan Gunn]
It was incredible. They know a lot about invasive species.

[Stuart Carlton]
And yeah. They got self-cloning crayfish.

[Megan Gunn]
And it's scary. You only need one. It's gonna...

They...

[Stuart Carlton]
Well, it takes two.

[Megan Gunn]
Not for these self-cloning crayfish.

They were created to just spawn on their own. And they were for aquarium purposes. Yeah. And now once they're released into the wild...

[Stuart Carlton]
I haven't heard this episode. Wait. So like literally they...

I thought you were being...

[Megan Gunn]
Yes.

[Stuart Carlton]
I thought you were introducing a topic.

[Megan Gunn]
No, asexual reproduction. And they just go wild.

[Stuart Carlton]
And... But they induced asexual reproduction?

[Megan Gunn]
Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
Who's that?

[Megan Gunn]
They... The crayfish by themselves.

[Stuart Carlton]
Oh, the crayfish.

[Megan Gunn]
Somebody created these crayfish. I don't know who. Yeah.

[Natty Morrison]
We gotta go back and listen to this.

[Megan Gunn]
Okay. I don't think that they talked about it in the episode.

[Natty Morrison]
This is the only other question. And we can talk about this later that I love to think about. Do invasive species know that they are invasive?

[Megan Gunn]
No.

[Stuart Carlton]
No.

[Natty Morrison]
That's tough to think about.

Anyway, Stuart, what about you?

[Stuart Carlton]
I liked all of those. I also liked another one that was nominated by listeners. Is we got Dr. Jay Austin to talk to us about stratification of the lakes. Which is an important process. So that was one of the coolest things that I learned this year. Because that's important to some course that we're planning in the summer.

[Natty Morrison]
Is it too much for me to ask what stratification is?

[Stuart Carlton]
It is. You can go to teachmeaboutthegreatlakes.com slash 111. And learn it on your own.

You must have missed that one. And you're listening somehow. But essentially the lakes turn over each year because of temperature changes.

And so it's a really important physical process. Where the water in the autumn can well up and stuff like that. And that's roughly what I know.

Other than what I learned from Jay Austin. But as I've told listeners many times before. It's really challenging for me to actually pay attention during these things.

Because there's a lot going on. Anyway.

[Natty Morrison]
Who's the winner?

[Stuart Carlton]
I mean self-cloning crawfish is hard.

[Megan Gunn]
Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
What do we call them here? Crayfish. Self-cloning.

[Megan Gunn]
Crawdads.

[Stuart Carlton]
Crawdads. Yeah. You get a line.

I'll get a pole. We'll go on down to the crawdad hole.

[Megan Gunn]
Let's do it.

[Stuart Carlton]
Self-cloning crawdads.

[Natty Morrison]
I agree. Congratulations. Yep.

[Stuart Carlton]
All right. Next up. Oh.

Sorry Nathaniel. Charles Morrison. Here I'm opening the letter.

Science podcast of the year. I think it was science podcast. Was that the...

[Megan Gunn]
Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
We used to try to go for multiple podcasts. But we got a lot of categories.

[Megan Gunn]
It got a little crazy.

[Stuart Carlton]
We've been rolling. We're 45 minutes in.

And we got... Well, I guess it's less than that. Because of all the stuff that poor Sandy is having to delete.

Podcast of the year though. The listeners had a very strong recommendation. Most of the listeners wanted this Mr. Great Lakes. Go to MrGreatLakes.com I believe. Jeff Cart.

[Natty Morrison]
Another excellent name.

[Stuart Carlton]
Jeff Cart.

[Natty Morrison]
You like Jeff Cart? Jeff Cart is such a strong name.

[Stuart Carlton]
Okay.

[Megan Gunn]
A lot of listeners recommended Mr. Great Lakes.

[Stuart Carlton]
I'll be honest. I don't know Mr. Great Lakes.

[Megan Gunn]
I don't either. But it seems like maybe we should know him. Or meet him.

Bring him on as a guest.

[Stuart Carlton]
I agree. We should look into that. So that is the strong reader recommendation.

Natty, did you go a different way? Or are you going with the readers on this one? Listeners.

[Natty Morrison]
I did go a different way. As much as I did see Mr. Great Lakes. I decided to go with the Everyday Environment Podcast from Illinois Extension.

We had a lot of specialists from Illinois NEC Grant who joined. And there were also a lot of other great guests as well. The podcast is really informative.

Really fun. Very just super listenable. I really found myself enjoying and listening to a lot of it.

I think Sarah Zack was on there. I think we had I believe Eliana Brown was on there. I could give shout outs galore.

But in general, I just thought that it really was a very engaging. And it's one of those podcasts where you listen to it. And it's like you're hanging out with your friends.

It is. And I also did not listen to Mr. Great Lakes.

[Stuart Carlton]
No.

[Natty Morrison]
I cannot in good conscious vote on that. OK. But I will for the greater good.

What about what is there? Did everybody else pick anything else?

[Megan Gunn]
No, I was going with Mr. Great Lakes just because of the comments that I read from our contributors. Mr. Great Lakes does the Environment Report. Their weekly two to four minute updates, which I like.

I like our podcast, too. But two to four minutes. Right.

I can drive in the car and get to campus. Yeah, he will. He does updates on water quality and wildlife and climate issues.

And it's something for everyone, whether you're a water advocate or a nature lover or a policy nerd or someone just wants some quick information about the Great Lakes.

[Stuart Carlton]
And then on the CBC, Canadian Broadcasting Corp, they release it. But it's Monsieur Great Lakes there.

[Megan Gunn]
I like it.

[Natty Morrison]
It's fancy. Monsieur Great Lakes.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah, or L'Occitane. Great. Grand.

There it is. Anyway, that's not true. None of that is true.

One other one I want to toss out. I agree. Mr. Great Lakes. You know what? We're going with the listeners. We'll take their strong recommendation.

I just added it to my feed. I started listening again to this. I used to listen to this, boy, a long time ago.

A show called Gastropod, which right now is released by Eater. I think it's been in a few different places. I mean, I want to say I started listening to this 10 years ago or more.

And I'd given it up. But I started it on Thanksgiving. And what they do, yeah, episode one, 2014.

And I remember listening back then. But they do a little bit of, it's a food podcast with people. But they do a little bit of science in there, too.

Talking about the science of different things. I started listening to it again because they have this great episode from a while ago on cranberries. And we were driving to the Thanksgiving.

And we listened to their episode on cranberries. And they talk about cranberry bogs and the flavor and the science behind the flavor of cranberries and stuff like that. And so Gastropod, hosted by, I will give you their names, Cynthia Graber and Nicola Twilley.

Gastropod. Fun listen. But the lakey goes to Mr. Great Lakes himself, Jeff Carton.

[Natty Morrison]
Yeah, MGL.

[Stuart Carlton]
MGL.

[Megan Gunn]
Congratulations.

[Stuart Carlton]
Congrats. All right, moving on. We got a little...

[Natty Morrison]
MGL is like an inversion of MLG.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah, I thought about that. The gun lover.

[Natty Morrison]
Whoa.

[Stuart Carlton]
So stupid. All right, now we're moving into the intense stuff. Now, enough messing around.

We're in the big categories now. Great Lakes animal of the year. This one's always hot.

This one's always hot.

[Megan Gunn]
I'm ready.

[Stuart Carlton]
You're ready?

[Megan Gunn]
Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
Go for it.

[Megan Gunn]
What you got? I'm going with mud puppies.

[Stuart Carlton]
Mud puppies.

[Megan Gunn]
I'm going with mud puppies. So mud puppies are a fully aquatic salamander. They, you can find them in the Great Lakes and they're a bionicator, which means if they go missing, that means something bad has happened to the water quality.

So finding them is a really good sign. But they have a varied diet and just like your shirt, they eat gobies. And so they are great to be in the water because they're preying on our invasive species.

And they're also called water dogs because they make a barking sound.

[Stuart Carlton]
Whoa. Water dogs make a barking sound? What's it sound like?

[Megan Gunn]
Like a bark?

[Stuart Carlton]
No, come on.

[Megan Gunn]
I'm not going to do that.

[Stuart Carlton]
Okay.

[Natty Morrison]
Yeah. You can't have somebody say something in a bark like a dog. Well, sir, when you phrase it like that, it does sound a little bit, uh, I mean, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're, you're the one who said it. That's my impression of Paul McCartney. You're the one who said it.

[Stuart Carlton]
And here's my impression of John Lennon.

I said what I said. It was wrong. It was taken wrong.

And now it's all this.

[Natty Morrison]
Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
All right.

[Megan Gunn]
Mud puppies.

[Stuart Carlton]
The water dog.

[Megan Gunn]
What about you, Natty?

[Stuart Carlton]
Oh, I was. Yeah, go for it.

[Natty Morrison]
No, no, I, I must be, I haven't been summoned yet.

Both people must prompt me. I've only been prompted. Only half of me can speak.

It's like I've had a stroke.

[Stuart Carlton]
Okay. Well, if you're torn, you should just rip torn. Yeah, let's just stroke you. Thanks for that, Natty.

[Natty Morrison]
Go ahead.

I don't want to interrupt. Yeah, please. I could do this all day.

Please, no you.

[Stuart Carlton]
Well, all right. My nominee. Water dogs.

Love water dogs. I had Sea Rocket and Imani. Two piping plovers.

Montrose Beach. Imani was, of course, the offspring of Monty and Rose. The hugely important piping plover nesting pair that were big celebrities on Montrose Beach.

Montrose Beach in the Chicago area. They, we had a, we had on Monty and Rose related guests. We had a couple of episodes on that.

Unfortunately, Monty and Rose, Natty, cover your ears, but they died. And so, but they had in their last year, I believe, their last breeding season, they had Imani. And now Imani is returning to Montrose Beach every year.

And they started mating with Sea Rocket, which is an awesome name.

[Natty Morrison]
That's a strong name, dude.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah, yeah. Sea Rocket is tight. They hatched three chicks this year.

[Megan Gunn]
Oh!

[Stuart Carlton]
Three chicks this year at Montrose Beach. And that's a total of-

[Natty Morrison]
Oh, they're birds. They're really cute little birds. I didn't know that.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah, yeah, yeah. You gotta look.

The title of our episode is Cotton Balls with Toothpick Legs. Yeah, yeah.

[Natty Morrison]
And they have little, they wear little ties to work.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah, yeah. And that's, they had-

[Natty Morrison]
That's so cute. I wanna cry. I think I wanna cry.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah. Anyway, and there were six total chicks in the Chicagoland area. There were three also-

[Megan Gunn]
That's so exciting.

[Stuart Carlton]
That are walking in this year to Blaze and Pepper, another mating pair. So that is my nominee.

[Natty Morrison]
Oh, I had chosen, wait, summon me. Please.

[Stuart Carlton]
Natty.

[Natty Morrison]
Prompt me, both of you.

[Stuart Carlton]
Natty, we're ready. Maybe we cannot do that one anymore.

[Natty Morrison]
I have awakened. I originally had voted for Lake Whitefish because of how vital, I was just shook.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah.

[Natty Morrison]
Absolutely shook by that story. And it feels like it would be wrong of me to not vote for them. But upon seeing a piping plover, a picture of a piping plover, which also sounds like a great kind of like tongue twister that an actor would do, like Oliver- Keeper Piper painted a picture of piping plovers.

Like Oliver Reed, you know, I'd be like, I'll pick you, I'll pick a piping plover. I can't even do it. I can't even do an impression of Oliver Reed.

Oliver Reed? Oliver North? Oliver Reed.

I'm gonna switch my vote and go with the piping plover because it's just so cute. I just, and I want to agree. I love agreeing, but I'm split.

[Stuart Carlton]
Okay. Yep. No, the-

[Megan Gunn]
You should look up my puppies.

[Natty Morrison]
Okay, let me look it up.

[Megan Gunn]
If we're going based on how cute things are.

[Stuart Carlton]
Oh, right. Like I mud puppies as cute as a piping plover. And the listeners, the number one vote receiver among the listeners was this Lake Sturgeon, which I'm not sure what is notable about them, but they were nominated, I guess. So we should at least mention-

[Natty Morrison]
Are we sure it wasn't the Sturgeon themselves writing it?

[Stuart Carlton]
It's not clear. I'll be honest. So that was also, so I guess they can be a runner off. That's fine.

[Natty Morrison]
Well, puppies are sort of cute, but I gotta go with the piping plover.

[Stuart Carlton]
Okay. Also a runner up. So the third runner up, Lake Sturgeon.

Second runner up. No, first, second runner up is Lake Sturgeon. First runner up, Mud Puppies, Water Dogs.

[Megan Gunn]
Yes.

[Stuart Carlton]
And the winner is going to be Sea Rocket and Imani, piping plovers.

[Natty Morrison]
Sorry. My bad to the white fish. Sorry, guys.

[Stuart Carlton]
There aren't many of them around to be offended.

[Natty Morrison]
I feel like it's going to play during the, in the, those we lost kind of- Oh, right.

[Stuart Carlton]
The memoriam. All right. Great Lakeside non-animal of the year.

Thank you, Maddie. Non-animal of the year. To me, there's a very obvious nomination.

Some of the listener ones, oops, hold on. Some of the listener ones include wild rice or manuman. That's a good one.

The manuman is a really interesting crop that's worth looking into if you don't know anything.

[Natty Morrison]
This is wild rice, like the kind of rice that I might eat, right?

[Stuart Carlton]
It is. But most of what you might eat is it's, if you get like the Uncle Ben's, there's just a little bit of wild rice in there. But it's a crop that's raised by indigenous peoples up in Wisconsin, maybe in Minnesota.

I don't know the full range. But Titus Seilheimer, who we might get to in a little while, he does, he was on a manuman project. And it's this really flavorful, interesting thing.

And you can buy bags of it, you know, directly from the people who produce it. But there's a cultural thing as well. It's really cool.

We should have, we should have an episode about that. Let's see. What else non-animal of the year?

The Petoskey stones, which are cool.

[Natty Morrison]
I don't actually know what that is.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah, Petoskey stones are like a rock and a fossil combined.

It's like a certain type of coral or whatever and rock. And they, during like glaciation, the ice packed it all down. And it creates these kind of cool stones that are characteristic of this area.

A lot of times, I think up in like northwestern Michigan, not the UP, but the LP, I guess, you know, around like around the ring finger. You know, they love to do the glove thing. In there, there's Petoskey stones.

I didn't hear about those until maybe, maybe a little farther south of that. But yeah, anyway, it's these really cool rocks. And then I believe Teach Me About the Great Lakes original co-host Hope Charters found one at one point.

[Megan Gunn]
Oh, cool.

[Stuart Carlton]
I was very pumped about that. Anyway, Petoskey stones, cool, cool nomination. But to me, I think the one and the only for this one, this one I think is appropriate for Great Lakes non-animal of the year.

I had the Eddie Fitz.

[Megan Gunn]
Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
Eddie Fitz, Gerald, 50th anniversary. The problem is that song has been stuck in my head for months and months. And I can't remember the name of the guy who wrote it.

I can't. It's a Gordon Lightfoot listener. I tried so hard to get him on the show.

His publicist would not reply to me. And now it's unfortunately not a possibility. Anyway, 50th anniversary, brought so much Great Lakes news out there.

Not an animal, which is a key part of this category. So I nominate the Edmund Fitzgerald, specifically the shipwreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald.

[Megan Gunn]
I'm going to go with, because it is not an actual animal, but a representation of an animal. So I still think it counts is Freshie the Frog.

[Stuart Carlton]
This was a listener nomination. Tell me about Freshie the Frog.

[Megan Gunn]
So Freshie the Frog is an environmental ambassador that shares tips on just everyday choices. So like using rose salt, like we've talked about already and how that impacts freshwater systems. You could follow Freshie for these hashtag salt reminders, salt smart reminders and learn how small actions can make a really big difference.

It's got an Instagram presence and a Facebook presence and it's just, it's this cutest little thing. So that is my choice.

[Stuart Carlton]
Excellent. Natty, did you have a recommendation?

[Natty Morrison]
I also voted for Freshie the Frog.

[Stuart Carlton]
Freshie the Frog.

[Natty Morrison]
It was my first, I had heard of it. I don't think I really understood what it was until I took a look. And yeah, not only is it unbelievably adorable, but in my researching of it, it led me to a lot of, yeah, just interesting other related materials and environmental issues involving like the snowplow salt and all that stuff and what it does to our waterways.

So it is an ambassador that has an impact far beyond its tiny, cute little size.

[Stuart Carlton]
Okay. So here's my argument for the Edmund Fitzgerald and then we'll decide. My argument is this, is that it's of the year, right?

And if the Eddie Fitz is going to get a Lakey for being the non-animal of the year, like it's going to be during a big anniversary and the 50th is going to be the one. Whereas Freshie the Frog is doing good work, hopefully for years to come.

[Megan Gunn]
Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
But that said, you know, Edmund Fitzgerald doesn't care.

[Megan Gunn]
Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
So I don't know. How do we want to go on this one?

[Megan Gunn]
I mean, I like the 50th. You've made a strong case for the 50th anniversary.

[Natty Morrison]
Sure. Why not?

[Megan Gunn]
Eddie Fitz.

[Stuart Carlton]
Eddie Fitz.

[Natty Morrison]
Congratulations. We're agreeing with you.

[Stuart Carlton]
I know, but I feel like it's false agreement.

[Natty Morrison]
It's not false agreement, but it's like, I don't want to, we, I don't want to spend, I can sit here and argue with you all day. And you know what, I will.

[Megan Gunn]
We can also talk about Beach Class or...

[Stuart Carlton]
Oh, Beach Class. I thought you said Beach Class and I was like, I didn't know there was a Beach Class.

[Natty Morrison]
I'd love to go to Beach Class.

[Stuart Carlton]
Or Fungi. Fungi. Now we'll go, we'll go Edmund Fitzgerald, runner up.

Freshie the Frog. Congrats, Freshie.

[Natty Morrison]
It's kind of like a Best New Artist Award.

[Stuart Carlton]
Stay tuned. This is a hot riser.

[Natty Morrison]
Yeah, exactly.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah, I gotcha. All right, now it's getting serious. Great Lakes Sandwich of the Year.

[Natty Morrison]
And this is good too, because I am, I have not eaten lunch and I'm very hungry.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah, yeah. Hungry. Natty, what was your Great Lakes Sandwich of the Year, my man?

[Natty Morrison]
I will say that I, the ones that were submitted all made me very hungry. And my runner up would just be somebody put fried perch sandwich.

I love perch, it's so delicious. But the one that just sounded the most, also smoked whitefish on rye, love that. But the one that just stood out to me the most was the Cuban sandwich at Ryan's on York in Manitowoc, Wisconsin.

Just sounds just killer. I looked up a picture of it. I looked up another picture of it.

I downloaded some pictures of it. I just love it. I just, it makes me want to eat a Cuban sandwich right now.

Big, big vote.

[Stuart Carlton]
Hometown. Hometown of the Wisconsin Maritime Museum and also Dr. Fish himself, Titus Seilheimer.

[Natty Morrison]
Oh, right. I bet he's had a few of those.

[Stuart Carlton]
I imagine. I imagine if we looked up the IP address on that nomination, we might see.

We might see a cell phone in the middle of like Green Bay. Because Titus is awesome.

[Megan Gunn]
Awesome.

[Stuart Carlton]
That one is solid. I've got a nominee. Well, I've got one, I like that.

I like another one. One I wanted to just point out. But it's not really in the Great Lakes.

But the best sandwich I had in the last year was the Italian beef breakfast sandwich at Time Machine in Pittsburgh. I was at a wedding in Pittsburgh, not mine. And you go and you stand outside.

It's like this cart, like on the street. And you have to wait a million hours while these hipsters in front of you get their sandwich and your kids get increasingly irritated. But we no longer, I don't live in a city, like a big city anymore.

And so that's an experience that you don't really have in West Lafayette. And another experience you don't really have in West Lafayette is a good sandwich. And so the old one-two there led me to really appreciate the Italian beef breakfast sandwich at Time Machine in Pittsburgh.

But Pittsburgh is pretty far from the lake.

[Megan Gunn]
And Pennsylvania is part of the Great Lakes.

[Stuart Carlton]
Pennsylvania is not really Pittsburgh.

It's pretty far in the Southwest. So anyway, I'm going to nominate that for a runner up. Megan, what are you thinking?

[Megan Gunn]
So even though I'm not a meat eater, I'm going to go with the ham and cheese grinder on a pretzel bun from the Dunes Learning Center. I will say I have eaten a lot of food from the Dunes Learning Center, which is an education facility in the northern- Northwest Indiana.

[Stuart Carlton]
Northwest Indiana.

[Megan Gunn]
Yeah, it's delicious. Everything they have there is delicious. So I can only imagine- Oh yeah, I was there, wasn't I?

[Natty Morrison]
You were there. Yeah, shout out to the crew there, man.

[Megan Gunn]
The kitchen crew was incredible.

[Natty Morrison]
The kitchen crew was amazing. They made delicious food, made the whole experience great. You know what, I'm changing my vote to that because I didn't realize that was the same place.

[Stuart Carlton]
The ham and cheese grinder.

[Natty Morrison]
I haven't had that one, but they make delicious food, so I vote for that.

[Stuart Carlton]
Dunes Learning Center, critical, critical place.

[Natty Morrison]
I think that's the winner.

[Stuart Carlton]
All right, there it is. Congratulations. All right, looking at the clock.

Donut of the Year, Great Lakes Donut of the Year. So we have some nominations. I wanted to point out that West Lafayette finally got a pretty good donut place.

Like we've had Mary Lou Donuts, which is solid, but they've been sold and it's fine. What I like is their original place had a nice donut shop atmosphere. Like it was kind of dingy, but it was the kind of thing where a bunch of farmers sit around a table.

[Natty Morrison]
Is that place closed now? Is that location closed?

[Stuart Carlton]
No, I don't think it is, but anyway. But then we have Panna Donuts, which the donuts are... Panna? Panna?

[Natty Morrison]
I don't know.

[Stuart Carlton]
Anyway, the donuts are good. The atmosphere stinks, so you don't want to go and eat in. Like donut shops, you got to have a nice atmosphere, man, so we want to eat there.

But anyway, that's really outside of the Great Lakes, but that is one that I wanted to point out. Thank you for a nice donut shop.

[Natty Morrison]
Absolutely. The one that I chose, this was submitted by our listener. Oh, there's a few.

I keep seeing more now, but I'm going to go with what made my mouth water the sound of it. Was the butter cream filled long john at Bakery On State in Wisconsin. In Manitowoc, Wisconsin.

[Stuart Carlton]
Also in Manitowoc.

[Natty Morrison]
Also nominated by the exact same person who nominated the ramen.

[Stuart Carlton]
What a food mecca, Manitowoc, Wisconsin.

[Natty Morrison]
I am getting all my information from one submission form. I will say that. But yes, delicious.

Sounds good.

[Megan Gunn]
I'm going to have to go with DB3 Donuts in Evanston. They allow you to say it with donuts, which I think is so sweet. Yes.

You can make custom donut letters. All right. All the things that you could say.

But what I... Are they tiny donuts? Are they like regular sized donuts?

[Stuart Carlton]
Did you go to the website?

[Megan Gunn]
I didn't.

[Natty Morrison]
Are there limits to what you can say with it? Because I think that... I'm sure there's certain...

[Megan Gunn]
I don't think it matters. Just give me giant boxes of donuts and I'll put the words together myself.

[Natty Morrison]
Oh, I thought that was what you were saying. So the donuts are letters.

[Stuart Carlton]
You and Natty were thinking different.

[Megan Gunn]
These look like regular sized donuts. I'm with it.

[Natty Morrison]
Yeah.

[Megan Gunn]
Let's go with it.

[Stuart Carlton]
All right. We're going to say it with donuts.

[Natty Morrison]
Let's say it with donuts.

[Stuart Carlton]
We're going to say it with donuts. And what we're going to say is Lakey's rule.

[Natty Morrison]
Lakies rule.

[Stuart Carlton]
All right. Excellent.

Now we're into a couple of special categories. Next category, Great Lakes Craft of the Year. Great Lakes Craft of the Year.

This year we have Dye Mad Yarns Great Lakes Collection.

[Megan Gunn]
Yes.

[Stuart Carlton]
This is so cool.

[Megan Gunn]
Have you seen it? It's incredible. As a yarn lover myself, when I came across this, I craft, I knit.

[Stuart Carlton]
Do you really?

[Megan Gunn]
I do knit. I knit in most of my meetings when I could be doing emails, but knitting seems like a better way to fidget.

But they have these collections of various colors for the different Great Lakes where you can make a product that is tied to whatever lake that you're focusing on. I think that's incredible.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yep. And they even have one for the Eddie Fitz. I think in anticipation of it being the Great Lakes non-animal of the year.

[Megan Gunn]
Yeah.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah. They have a lot of different... Now these are hipsters, so they call them colorways, but they have a lot of cool colorways, including the Edmund Fitzgerald.

This is really neat stuff. I'm not much of a knitter. In fact, I'm not at all a knitter, but this is really neat stuff.

[Megan Gunn]
I thought that was incredible.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah, nice. Yeah. So that's my nomination for...

Nominee for Great Lakes Craft of the Year. I think they should be the winner.

[Natty Morrison]
I agree.

[Stuart Carlton]
All right.

[Natty Morrison]
Congratulations.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yep. Now the category that everybody has been waiting for, the Great Lakes Titus of the Year. And this is where we talk about our friend, Dr. Fish himself, Titus Seilheimer. Let me tell you about Titus. Titus, he is a Fisheries Extension Specialist with Wisconsin Sea Grant. He is the titular Dr. Fish, of Ask Dr. Fish, one of two. Also Dr. Catfish, Katie O'Reilly. And Titus is super hyper knowledgeable about all the fishes of the Great Lakes. He's very passionate about them.

We're starting up Ask Dr. Fish again just in a month or two. So look for that live stream and then in your podcast feed. He's called in before from a boat on that show.

He sent us all custom Ask Dr. Fish coasters that he got laser cut. He loves to record videos of fish spawning. And when I think about it, and he works on the Manuman Project and things like that.

So when I think about somebody who is a passionate advocate for Great Lakes and Great Lakes science, nobody embodies that better than Titus Seilheimer. Which is why he's the runner up for this year's Great Lakes Titus of the Year. The winner is Titus Manufacturing of Plymouth, Indiana.

They offer water jet cutting, CNC plasma cutting, welding, forming and fabrication to make OEM replacement parts, formed rings, material handling equipment, platforms and more. You really should check out their Titus 2 grinder. That thing is a piece of machinery.

And so this year's Great Lakes Titus of the Year, Titus Manufacturing, Plymouth, Indiana.

[Megan Gunn]
Let's go take a field trip.

[Natty Morrison]
Let's do it. Congratulations.

[Stuart Carlton]
Yeah. That's the Lakeys 2025. I'm so glad this year to be semi-earnest for a moment that we've been working for several years. We've had some personnel stuff.

And we've been working for several years to try to find a way to make teaching about the Great Lakes sustainable again in terms of finding time to do the show. Because everybody's workload is going up, not down. But I think we finally found a way.

And you see all the work that people have put in this year to make the show start to happen regularly again. And I'm so pumped about it. And I can't be more appreciative of the work.

The work that Carolyn, who couldn't make this particular episode, has done. The work that Sandy has done. Sandy Svoboda.

The work that you've done, Megan and Natty. The work that you will do to make this show happen. It's the funnest thing we do.

I would say it's the best thing we do, but it's not. But it is the funnest thing we do. And so I just want to say thank you to the entire team for another...

This was more of a half year, but a wonderful half year. We had the Lake House of Terror again. Season of giving.

We got the Lakeys again. We're back, baby. Let's see if we can keep that momentum going up.

And for all of you out there in listener land, I hope you have a lovely 2025 New Year and an awesome start to 2026. Unless, of course, this episode is released late. In which case, I hope that you're having an awesome start to 2026.

Teach Me About the Great Lakes is brought to you by the fine people of Illinois Indiana Sea Grant. We encourage you to check out the cool stuff we do at IICGrant.org and at ILINSeagrant on Facebook, Blue Sky and other social media.

[Natty Morrison]
Our senior producer is Carolyn Foley and Teach Me About the Great Lakes is produced by Megan Lakelover-Gunn and Randy Miles. Ethan Chitty is our associate producer and fixer and our coordinating producer is Ava Hale. Our super fun podcast artwork is by Joel Davenport.

The show is edited by Sandra Svoboda.

[Megan Gunn]
If you have a question or comment about the show, please email it to teachmeaboutthegreatlakes at gmail.com or leave a message on our hotline at 765-496-IISG or 4474. Or if you want, send us a postcard. We love postcards.

[Stuart Carlton]
That's right, 195 Marsteller Street, West Lafayette, Indiana.

[Megan Gunn]
47907.

[Stuart Carlton]
Thanks for listening and keep grading those lakes.

[Natty Morrison]
You're right, I just thought about it. That's what got me.