This is an automated transcript; we apologize for any errors. If you notice any problems, please email the show at teachmeaboutthegreatlakes@gmail.com. Thank you.

Stuart Carlton 0:00
teach me about the Great Lakes, teach me about the Great Lakes. Welcome back to teach me about the Great Lakes and exactly monthly podcast in which I get people who are smarter, harder working and occasionally better looking than I am to teach me all about the Great Lakes. And this is actually our second episode this month of our monthly podcast because we're doing more about our buoys cannot be more excited to talk about the boys but here to talk about them with me, as always is hope charters hope what's up?

Hope Charters 0:29
Oh, hey. You're very excitable today.

Stuart Carlton 0:32
very excitable. I got multiple hours of sleep. We're recording this on Cinco de Mayo. I'm going to log off and get me a spicy read. Assume couple of tacos. Life is Grundy, which means big, doesn't it? My Spanish is, yeah, that's fine. Just as excellent. No, we're getting punchy. Now. What are we eight or nine weeks into this? Right? And it's starting to get real pandemics a little crazy. Yes. Yeah. So anything goofier than normal, I blame on the pandemic. I anyway, ya know, we're really excited to talk today about the buoys. We're gonna bring on Jay Begley, who is our aquatic ecology specialist, and he has Mr. Bouie, at Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant. And so I'm super excited to talk to him. But before I do a couple of housekeeping things, you know, it's been a while. And I want to do it now at the beginning of the show, rather than at the end of the show, for various reasons that may become apparent that it's been a while since I've asked you to do the rate and the review thing. So can you take a minute right now, pause will still be here and go and like do a rating five star rating and write a review on the podcast?

Hope Charters 1:38
Do it if it's not going to be five stars.

Stuart Carlton 1:40
I didn't ask them to not to if it's not ask them to leave a five star rating. I was very clear in my directive. If you need to double check, rewind the podcast, go back to the instructions. But they were Yeah, five star rating. And review. If you have a nice little review, that'd be super because it helps people find our show. And we are a extraordinarily moderately successful podcast and we're as moderately successful as we need to be. But we'd love to have more listeners because the more the merrier. So one, please do that, too. Another housekeeping item is if you want to have any questions or you know things you'd like to talk about, you can do a hashtag on Twitter. And that hashtag is ask Great Lakes. If you hit that up. We'll see it there. You can send it to our Twitter account. We'll have all that in the show notes, which you can find on our website at WWW dot teach me about the great lakes.com/eleven The number 11 Because this is episode 11 Or just look down at your podcast player. Now I think we're actually going to do an episode though so let's do the episode housekeeping aside right after single note guitar intro

Our guest today is Jay Begley aquatic ecology specialist with Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant J, what's up?

Jay Begley 2:59
Oh, you know getting ready for buoy time of year. Sort of its own sort of its own holiday for me, Spring and Fall is buoy time. So

Stuart Carlton 3:12
trying to get ready. So So when is buoy time you normally put them out during the spring and retrieve them during the fall, what kind of drives that

Jay Begley 3:19
a lot of it has to do with the the weather. So we need to make sure that we don't have ice potential so the buoys can't be out in the ice or it'll start to sink them. So in this spring, usually that's mid April, we shoot for mid April, and then we look for a couple days of really good weather to take the buoys out. And then the fall. Usually we start looking for a good weather day at the end of October. And sometimes that takes the whole month in November and sometimes it doesn't. So

Stuart Carlton 3:56
all right now nobody's out right now what's to do with it? We keep getting email, where am I buoys? J

Jay Begley 4:01
Yeah, so we've had a couple issues with getting the buoys out this year related to COVID-19. The biggest is that the university doesn't want people within six feet of each other. And it takes three people on a boat at a minimum to get the buoys out and the boats are not big enough, and the work is not conducive to us being six foot apart. So we struggle with that. And also we rely on a lot of volunteers to get the buoys in and out of the water. And it's it's not worth the risk to volunteers to have them go out and deploy the buoys for us so so we're waiting for the university to give us a clear sight or clear oversight on what we should do. And we're waiting for good weather and the usual so yeah, I'm

Stuart Carlton 4:49
also waiting for good weather but we didn't have multiple good weather days. So it is it a thing where it so it's just not safe to put them out. Well let me maybe physically not safe if this bad bad weather, but you just worried about disease transmission and stuff like that.

Jay Begley 5:03
Yeah, that's the biggest concern right now. With the location of the buoys, where they're at in the winter is down in West Lafayette. So we have to trailer them up to the lake. And then that would take multiple trucks right now, because you have to have one person per vehicle. And then actually working on the boat with many people is difficult under these conditions. And the buoys still have some maintenance stuff that needs done, that's been delayed because we've been requested to work off campus. So the blue, the buoys are on campus. They needed work done, and we haven't been able to do some of that work.

Hope Charters 5:42
And why did you say that you can't leave them out for the winter, something about the ice.

Jay Begley 5:45
Yeah, so the ice will actually build up on top of the buoys and slowly sink them. If you look on Twitter, the two yellow buoys Twitter account, and my Twitter account, you'll see some footage from last year where we were a little late getting them out and some ice had built up. And they were sitting pretty low in the water. So it doesn't take a whole lot of ice to start to sink the buoy. And then, and then the costs of repair and retrieval go up exponentially for me Ever had one actually sink? No, thankfully, that is, that has not been a problem yet. So honestly, the ice builds up on the top of them before the lake like freezes around them. So so we have time to get to them. But there, it gets kind of sketchy.

Stuart Carlton 6:39
It's how do you do so the boys have cameras, right? Is that how you tell? Or is it just kind of your own gut instinct? Or, you know, do you don't drones? You can fly out there? It'd be

Jay Begley 6:47
cool. Yeah, we can't tell honestly, we just have to base it on air temperature. And this the sea state. So if it's really wavy and really cold, we know that those waves are going to be splashing water up on it. And that's going to be freezing into ice. Even when we picked up the buoys that had a lot ice build up on them. The solar panels were still charging the batteries fully through the ice. So that didn't even tell us whether or not they were covered in ice. So there's not really a good way to tell at this point.

Hope Charters 7:18
It is kind of cool, though that use the data from the buoys to tell whether or not he's ready to come in.

Jay Begley 7:24
Yeah, it'd be nice if they had a little ice indicator on him.

Stuart Carlton 7:29
So what do they that's that actually is a really good question. So I don't know a ton about these bullies. I know they exist. And they're cool. And we get data from them that is used. We talked to Tom Coombs, meteorologists in South Bend with ABC 57, over there, and he said that the buoy data is really important to him. But so I know that they're getting like temperature. And, you know, I know they got cameras, what other sensors are on the buoys that you know what other data they collect.

Jay Begley 7:54
So the buoys are pretty customizable, depending on what what kind of features we want to put on them in the budget we have. So the Michigan City buoy has a temperature chain, which measures the temperature at different depths to clear to the lake bottom. And that kind of information is really useful to the fisherman on that side of the lake. But it doesn't have camera. Instead, we use the camera off of the the lighthouse there, Michigan City. And then the Wilmette buoy, it has a camera but it doesn't have a temperature chain. So they're slightly different there. But then the things that are the same are wave height, wave period, wave direction, wind speed, wind direction, wind gust, humidity, pressure. And I'm sure I'm forgetting something, surface water temperature, air temperature. And that's, that's pretty standard. And I think most of our users are interested in the temperature, wave height. And wind speed is usually the most common things.

Hope Charters 9:02
And you mentioned fishing people, not fishermen, because there are ladies too. Maybe we should just call them anglers. Yes. So you mentioned anglers use the data. Who else uses the data?

Jay Begley 9:14
It's it's a pretty wide group. There's a lot of sailors especially along the Illinois side that use the buoys for planning their trips or their races or whatever out of the various harbors over there. The Coast Guard, especially the Wilmette, Coast Guard, decides whether they can even deploy or not based on the wind speeds at that buoy. So I think it's like 20 knots, anything over 20 knots and they have to have the big cutter come down from Milwaukee for for Rescue Services.

Stuart Carlton 9:45
So wait, they use our buoy to figure out like if they can, what boat they need or whatever.

Jay Begley 9:50
Yeah, yeah, they're pretty anxious when our buoy is not out there. To

Stuart Carlton 9:56
the spring they can deploy

Jay Begley 9:59
they have deployed it with us. So that's who I partner with and Wilmette. So the Wilmette coastguard station takes me out on their boat and helps me deploy and retrieve that buoy. What good partners? Yeah, exactly. And additionally the the harbor and the yacht club over there, let me use their facilities and stuff. And then on the Indiana side, we use the DNR station to launch all of our stuff, and the Michigan City Port Authority to actually lower the buoy in the water. So we have a lot of support from the users, which is great. Yeah, that's awesome. That really

Stuart Carlton 10:37
is like a group effort. I was thinking about that. And that's further makes a difficulty here, right we're trying to get a launch this spring is that it's all these different organizations, all of whom probably have different policies in terms of travel. And in terms of, you know, who you can be around or not be around and stuff like that. So. So it's kind of the key strike. There's all these different people that we weave into the tapestry of the buoy deployment. But but it's a challenge when nobody can work together.

Hope Charters 11:05
Do you have any crazy stories about deployment? I know that you said that. Sometimes they're a little icy, but you haven't actually gotten one yet, which is great. Do you have any, like just wild stories about going out on the water when it's insanely rough just to get a buoy or something.

Jay Begley 11:21
So I've been out a couple of times when it's rougher than I would like, but that's, that just involves a lot of caution and taking your time. And just making sure you're following all the steps in the correct order to so that everyone's safe. But probably the most interesting thing we had happened was a couple of years ago, when we tried to retrieve the Michigan City buoy. It was mid November already. And we went out and there was three of us on the boat. And we tried to hoist up the anchor chain, which is what we have to do to disconnect the buoy. And we could move it about eight or 10 feet. And we needed to get it about 3540 feet to make the connection. And it just wasn't moving. We were pulling so hard the back of the boat was you know dropping down closer and closer to the waterline.

So that was that was fairly stressful, and we couldn't figure out what was going on. And we made two more trips up there just trying to just different ideas, we had to untangle the the line to get it on hooked. And ultimately, we had to find divers to go up there. And this was the last week in November. So it was right after Thanksgiving, we found some divers to go up and dry suits. And it turned out that some anglers had wrapped their stainless steel leaders around our anchor line. And whereas the anchor line normally makes like an S curve up towards the surface and back down towards the bottom, and then back to the surface that had all been tied together by the stainless steel wire. And so it was making it so we couldn't pull it up at all. And we had divers, they had to go down two or three times cutting on the stainless steel wire. And it was it was cold and miserable. That does not sound fun. It took a lot of trips. And it was we eventually got it but it was very stressful trying to get that done in the whole time. I was thinking by the time December gets here, there's gonna be so much ice we're gonna be in a lot of trouble. So luckily, we got it. We got it done.

Hope Charters 13:36
That's good. Sounds like you kept their cool.

Stuart Carlton 13:39
Well, I had to was November in Illinois. I'm still working on your yanking my chain joke related to that when I'll let you know when. But it sounds weird. But like there are a number of these stories, right? Where it's like, these are huge pieces of equipment that are out there and you're having to deploy those and like it's kind of hazardous at times that freaks me out. I'll be honest, every time you say you're gonna go out, I'm like, Oh, I would love for him to come back.

Hope Charters 14:07
Yeah, how big is one of these buoys? Like how big are they? Could you wrap your arms around it? Or are they way bigger than we imagined them actually be?

Jay Begley 14:14
So the base of the buoys is just a little bigger than I can wrap my arms around. So it's probably three foot across. So the diameter of that is, is a little bigger. They stand about depending on how much ice is on them anywhere from like six to eight feet above the water. And then they go and they go down about that far too. And they they're weighted a little differently each buoy, but they're about I'll say 700 pounds is probably the average for the for the Wilmette and Michigan City buoys. Holy moly. So they're heavy.

Stuart Carlton 14:51
Unless you're hauling like

Hope Charters 14:52
a 700 pound. What 15 foot long buoy via Indiana up to Lake Michigan every hear

Jay Begley 15:00
ya, yes I am. Luckily they they take the come apart so I can take it into two pieces and put the lower half on a trailer and the upper half in the back of a truck. Typically, we keep the Wilmette one, we have a storage place over there that one of our partners lets us keep keep the buoy up, so we don't have to worry about that one. But this year, we brought it back to do some annual maintenance and stuff like that. But yeah, normally we're hauling all that through Chicago and up to Michigan City to try to assemble on the dock and then tow out.

Hope Charters 15:38
through Chicago traffic sounds terrible. Sorry,

Stuart Carlton 15:41
go for does cheese. Have you ever had that open an issue with like boats hitting the buoy? Is that a problem? Are they you know, in high traffic areas?

Jay Begley 15:52
We don't have any confirmed boat strikes yet. We do have the buoys have six solar panels on them. And in the years we've been doing this, which now has been who eight years, I want to say for the Michigan City one. We have had two solar panels just disappear. So my guess is that about struck them and knocked them off. But that's, that's just a guess it could have

Hope Charters 16:23
it wasn't somebody going out and stealing a solar panel,

Jay Begley 16:27
they would be if they were to try to steal one, they wouldn't have much usable wire left on the hand of it. It would be it would be quite a wasted effort. So especially for something you can probably get for 80 bucks.

Hope Charters 16:43
Once you could use your buoy cam as a

Jay Begley 16:45
Yes, sir. Hope deterrent? Yeah, so

Stuart Carlton 16:50
cool. Um, so you're talking about like, all these different things that are on the buoy all the different type of data they gather and some people or how they use them and things like that. But so let's think forward to the future to the year 2000. And, like what what is what is what does buoy 2000 look like? Like? Are there emerging technologies that you would like to get into the buoys at some point? Or what are you thinking in terms of where it might go?

Jay Begley 17:15
Well, I'll say for some of the buoys that we partner with, so off of Winthrop and Waukegan area, Illinois Geological Survey have two buoys up there that collect some really interesting data, but it's not real clear how to display that in real time yet. And what those have on them is something called an acoustic Doppler profiler, and that measures underwater current, so it's kind of cool to know how the water is moving. And I could see that being really important for beach goers and kayakers and, and all those kinds of people as well as people worried about coastal erosion. So having something like that on the buoys is great, but how to make it accessible in real time is still a challenge for us.

Stuart Carlton 18:01
So the challenge is like how to get people to use the data from the let me be acoustic Doppler profiler.

Jay Begley 18:07
Even figuring out how to display it in a way that's user friendly is more challenging because you'll have velocities at different depths and different directions and figuring out how to kind of 3d animate that in real time is real difficult.

Hope Charters 18:27
Sounds really cool, though. definitely sounds like a Yeah, a buoy 3000 not 2000

Stuart Carlton 18:35
I like your optimism for my lifespan. Hope I appreciate that it's cool. And how much how much like why don't we have an acoustic Doppler profiler? How much was cost?

Jay Begley 18:46
Oh, that's getting outside of my range of knowledge. But I think there's somewhere between 20 and 30 grand

Stuart Carlton 18:53
I want an acoustic Doppler profiler so we'll see.

Hope Charters 18:57
Good luck growing that money tree

Stuart Carlton 19:00
Speak of the devil you know, we don't ask for much on this podcast. All we ask is for you to occasionally give us a five star rating and write a review. But the buoys are the most popular thing that we do by many definitions. When you look at our website traffic by an order of magnitude more people visit the buoys and visit anything else. And but it Jake has really described this like it's like, you know, chewing gum and duct tape we're holding this together by and so if you love our boys or if you love our show, really, we would love it if you could go to I see grant.org/donate and make a donation for the buoys because, you know, they do need maintenance, they need acoustic Doppler profilers, we need gas and fuel to get them out there. And every year we are kind of like putting this stuff together you know with leftover funds, and you know savings from this project or that so donations are wonderful. So if you do have a moment to go to I see grant.org/donate and make any sort of donation We'd really appreciate that

Hope Charters 20:01
shameless plug. But we really do need the money.

Stuart Carlton 20:05
It was not that shameless.

Hope Charters 20:06
So I know that people do donate already. And people help us out like the partners you mentioned earlier. So is there anybody you want to give a shout out to? As a thanks?

Jay Begley 20:16
Yeah, the Wilmette Coast Guard has been really helpful. From day one, when I reached out to them, they've let me use their facilities, they've offered their total help whenever I need it. As long as they have all the resources in place, that if a if they have to respond to something, they can still go do that. The Wilmette yacht club there, they let me use their facilities as well. And the staff there helps me clean and and get the boat ready, or the buoy ready. And then the one of our partners on the Michigan City buoy Carrie Troy and the civil engineering lab. Him and his students like David cannon, they are instrumental in getting the buoys prepped during the winter. So if it weren't for those guys, I would just have a empty chunk of fiberglass to haul out there. So they do a lot of work behind the scenes. And I really appreciate all the effort they put in. So

Hope Charters 21:17
cool and Karis Troy, his students do what kind of research out in the lake.

Jay Begley 21:23
He's a hydrologist. In civil engineering, I'm gonna say. So he's interested in like, the movements of water out there. So he does a lot of different things looking at like wave motion and turbulent mixing and that kind of stuff. So

Hope Charters 21:42
awesome. So I assume they use the buoy data a lot.

Jay Begley 21:46
They do. Yeah, they especially early on, I use it a whole lot. So yeah, it's

Stuart Carlton 21:50
amazing the amount of help we get from people in terms of retrieving and deploying and all this academic help. And those students, you know, I know they love the buoys. And the work they do is really important. And a lot of times they're doing it for free or just out of interest. That's amazing. And then I know we have a lot of partners who opened like the website and the data gathering too, right?

Jay Begley 22:06
Yeah, within Sea Grant, we have a lot of help with Angie Archer and Carolyn Foley, they help a lot. Additionally, we have gloss which hosts our data and they help fund some of the early buoy work we did. And Lim no tech has been instrumental in some of the technical aspects of the buoys. So they helped with the early part of the grants on the Wilmette buoy. And also anytime I have problems I can call up limb, no tech, and they'll they'll help me out as well.

Stuart Carlton 22:35
Yeah, that's wonderful. And if anybody wants to hear more about gloss, I encourage you encourage you to go to teach me about the great lakes.com/ten Because last week, part one of this two part buoy extravaganza, we interviewed the CEO of glossy Kelly pages her name. Well, Jay, these boys are awesome. As you know, I love the buoys. Everybody loves the buoys. But that's not why we brought you on to teach me about the Great Lakes. We brought you on to teach me about the Great Lakes to answer this question. And only this question except of course for the next question. And that is this. If you could choose to either have a great donut for breakfast, or a great sandwich for lunch, but not both. Which would you choose?

Jay Begley 23:12
I think I'd have to go with a doughnut. For sure.

Stuart Carlton 23:15
A doughnut a rare donut choice. Okay, yeah, tell me what kind of doughnut and we're from since we live in the same town I need to know where to put my donut game.

Jay Begley 23:23
Well, the problem is our town doesn't have a great donut in my opinion, but there's I've had several greens in my life. Yeah, there's

Stuart Carlton 23:32
a Marilou donuts I have

Jay Begley 23:35
and we can talk about that maybe another time.

Hope Charters 23:39
We can do better than Mary Lou Donna.

Jay Begley 23:40
Yes. Is over in Muncie. If you're up for a short drive there's cannons can cannons bakery which has an excellent I don't know if they call it a long john or cream stick or whatever. I think there's a lot of different variations of of those, but they're pretty good.

Hope Charters 24:00
Speaking since we're talking about Indiana bakeries, have you been to Long's bakery in Indy?

Jay Begley 24:05
I have not, Oh,

Stuart Carlton 24:06
you got your new one you gotta go. And then the other question, we always like to ask his what is one piece of life advice you might have for our listeners? It can be serious or silly, you know, big or little life advice, but we want to, you know, give everybody something to take home with them to help them live a better live a better life.

Jay Begley 24:27
Well, what I always try to do, especially working a lot with students and sometimes less than ideal conditions is to when things aren't going well. Try to maintain a sense of humor, no matter how frustrated or irritated you are, it's best to be able to laugh at yourself and move on to the next problem without a lot of stress. And sometimes you can internalize that stress for those around you as long as you have a healthy way to release it, but it's important to stay relaxed. Then and laugh as problems come up.

Stuart Carlton 25:03
I couldn't say it better myself. Hey, that's really great. And that obviously is something that's important to us is maintaining a sense of humor will tell you if people want to find out more about the buoys. Where should they go?

Jay Begley 25:12
I see grant.org

Stuart Carlton 25:14
I see grant.org And you can also follow the buoys of course on twitter@twitter.com Slash, to yellow buoys. That's T Woy e ll o WB OUYS. Nope, you

Hope Charters 25:30
just don't spell it out.

Stuart Carlton 25:32
The point is the two is spelled out. Anyway, this pandemic thing is really gonna go anyway and twitter.com/to Yellow buoys, which with the two spelled out T wo, followed by the spelling of yellow and blue, which everybody knows.

Jay Begley 25:45
Well, if you want to find out more information, you should really talk to the buoys themselves. Yeah,

Stuart Carlton 25:49
that'd be nice. If we could I'll let you know when that sensor comes through. In the meantime, Jay Begley aquatic ecology specialist for Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant, thanks so much for coming on and teaching us about the Great Lakes.

It's always nice to talk to Jay about the buoys. It really is. I mean, I mentioned a couple times, but just one of the coolest things we do on people sure do love them.

Hope Charters 26:16
Yeah, we get emails about them all the time, especially if we're a little late getting them out on the water. Yeah, this year.

Stuart Carlton 26:22
People under understanding because of the pandemic, but that doesn't mean that they're patient, right. Oh, great. So hope what is something that you learned about the Great Lakes today?

Buoy 2 26:32
Well, oh, Stuart and Oh. Hello. What was that? Hi,

Stuart Carlton 26:37
hope. Are you hearing something?

Hope Charters 26:39
Yeah, it sounds very robotic, though. I have no idea what it is. J hung

Buoy 2 26:43
up in Michigan City buoy. But we 45,170.

Stuart Carlton 26:50
Michigan City buoy. How are you?

Buoy 26:52
And I on the Wilmette, Willie, do II 45,174?

Stuart Carlton 26:57
Well, my boys and you too? Yes. Well, this is an unbelievable opportunity. I didn't know y'all were available right now.

Hope Charters 27:04
Are you excited to get back to the

Buoy 2 27:05
link? Yes.

Hope Charters 27:08
I think everybody else is excited for you to get back to the LinkedIn.

Stuart Carlton 27:11
Yes, thanks. You're. Well, this is great. I assume your time is limited. But but this is a wonderful thing for us to be able to talk to you. What would you say you're? You know, people are always talking to us about the buoys want to know about the bullies? What what is the thing you're most proud of as a bully?

Buoy 2 27:27
How pretty we are?

Stuart Carlton 27:32
Remarkable.

Buoy 27:35
Yes, we are very pretty. But we also collect lots of great data that people use.

Stuart Carlton 27:46
No, I agree. You do collect a whole lot of data for a ton of people out there that people found find to be really valuable. What in terms of like the people who are some of their favorite people that you get to work with or that you collect data for?

Buoy 2 28:00
Sailors? Sometimes they visit us and that is cool.

Buoy 28:06
We love surfers.

Hope Charters 28:08
Oh, cool. Do people surf out on Lake Michigan? I didn't even know.

Buoy 28:11
Yes. Isn't that enough?

Hope Charters 28:13
That's totally. So I'm sure you haven't seen a new surfers lately because of the pandemic. It must be nice that you too don't have to worry about changing your routine much because you're out of the water. You're all by yourselves. But does it ever get lonely out on the lake when you are out on the water?

Buoy 2 28:31
Oh pit. But we have lots of friends all over the lakes. We do competitions with them all over the summer.

Buoy 28:39
Yes, the buoy data game, watch for it on Wednesdays whenever we get in the water.

Stuart Carlton 28:44
Well, boys, I mean, you know, having you on we have to take this opportunity. You're out there collecting data all the time, you know, thinking a lot about what it is to live in the Great Lakes and to be in the Great Lakes. Do you have any life advice that you'd like to give our listeners or any anybody else out there? You know, it can be big or little important or trivial. But what's a good piece of life advice that you have?

Buoy 29:03
Stuart we are not alive.

Buoy 2 29:06
But the Great Lakes are awfully beautiful and you should take care of them.

Buoy 29:10
If only to keep us in a job.

Stuart Carlton 29:12
Couldn't have said it better ourselves. Well, two yellow buoys, thank you so much for coming on and teaching us all about the Great Lakes and we can't wait to talk to you again at some point.

Buoy 29:20
You're welcome. We enjoy crashing your party.

Buoy 2 29:23
And we're glad that Jay will put us back out soon.

Stuart Carlton 29:27
As are we thank you so much. And thank you to our listeners. Where can people go to find out more information about this super duper program and this amazing show that we host you can

Hope Charters 29:41
find more? Find out more about us on our website at I see grant.org Or you can find us on social media if you search for Illinois-Indiana Sea Grant or use the handle at IO ai n Sea Grant

Stuart Carlton 29:54
and if people want to follow you personally where should they go?

Hope Charters 29:58
If you really want to I am Add H O P E k yr a hope Kira

Stuart Carlton 30:03
hope cura Excellent thank you everybody for tuning in. Keep liking those greats and keep grinding those lakes

and thus ends my career